“How Blacks have Irish Last Names”

Ever wonder how a lot of African Americans have Irish last names? Is not because of Irish slave owners, no erase that foolishnessโ€ฆโ€ฆdonโ€™t think Gone With The Wind and the Oโ€™Hara plantation. What a lot of people donโ€™t know is that Irish were slaves too, hundreds of thousands were sent to work in the West Indies and they blended with the black slaves thus we have Irish names like McFadden, McDonalds, etc. white-slave65a

Irish descendants

They came as slaves; vast human cargo transported on tall British ships bound for the Americas. They were shipped by the hundreds of thousands and included men, women, and even the youngest of children.
Whenever they rebelled or even disobeyed an order, they were punished in the harshest ways. Slave owners would hang their human property by their hands and set their hands or feet on fire as one form of punishment. They were burned alive and had their heads placed on pikes in the marketplace as a warning to other captives.
We donโ€™t really need to go through all of the gory details, do we? We know all too well the atrocities of the African slave trade.
But, are we talking about African slavery? King James II and Charles I also led a continued effort to enslave the Irish. Britainโ€™s famed Oliver Cromwell furthered this practice of dehumanizing oneโ€™s next door neighbor.
The Irish slave trade began when James II sold 30,000 Irish prisoners as slaves to the New World. His Proclamation of 1625 required Irish political prisoners be sent overseas and sold to English settlers in the West Indies. By the mid 1600s, the Irish were the main slaves sold to Antigua and Montserrat. At that time, 70% of the total population of Montserrat were Irish slaves.
Ireland quickly became the biggest source of human livestock for English merchants. The majority of the early slaves to the New World were actually white.
From 1641 to 1652, over 500,000 Irish were killed by the English and another 300,000 were sold as slaves. Irelandโ€™s population fell from about 1,500,000 to 600,000 in one single decade. Families were ripped apart as the British did not allow Irish dads to take their wives and children with them across the Atlantic. This led to a helpless population of homeless women and children. Britainโ€™s solution was to auction them off as well.
During the 1650s, over 100,000 Irish children between the ages of 10 and 14 were taken from their parents and sold as slaves in the West Indies, Virginia and New England. In this decade, 52,000 Irish (mostly women and children) were sold to Barbados and Virginia. Another 30,000 Irish men and women were also transported and sold to the highest bidder. In 1656, Cromwell ordered that 2000 Irish children be taken to Jamaica and sold as slaves to English settlers.
Many people today will avoid calling the Irish slaves what they truly were: Slaves. Theyโ€™ll come up with terms like โ€œIndentured Servantsโ€ to describe what occurred to the Irish. However, in most cases from the 17th and 18th centuries, Irish slaves were nothing more than human cattle.
As an example, the African slave trade was just beginning during this same period. It is well recorded that African slaves, not tainted with the stain of the hated Catholic theology and more expensive to purchase, were often treated far better than their Irish counterparts.
African slaves were very expensive during the late 1600s (50 Sterling). Irish slaves came cheap (no more than 5 Sterling). If a planter whipped or branded or beat an Irish slave to death, it was never a crime. A death was a monetary setback, but far cheaper than killing a more expensive African. The English masters quickly began breeding the Irish women for both their own personal pleasure and for greater profit. Children of slaves were themselves slaves, which increased the size of the masterโ€™s free workforce. Even if an Irish woman somehow obtained her freedom, her kids would remain slaves of her master. Thus, Irish moms, even with this new found emancipation, would seldom abandon their kids and would remain in servitude.
In time, the English thought of a better way to use these women (in many cases, girls as young as 12) to increase their market share: The settlers began to breed Irish women and girls with African men to produce slaves with a distinct complexion. These new โ€œmulattoโ€ slaves brought a higher price than Irish livestock and, likewise, enabled the settlers to save money rather than purchase new African slaves. This practice of interbreeding Irish females with African men went on for several decades and was so widespread that, in 1681, legislation was passed โ€œforbidding the practice of mating Irish slave women to African slave men for the purpose of producing slaves for sale.โ€ In short, it was stopped only because it interfered with the profits of a large slave transport company.
England continued to ship tens of thousands of Irish slaves for more than a century. Records state that, after the 1798 Irish Rebellion, thousands of Irish slaves were sold to both America and Australia. There were horrible abuses of both African and Irish captives. One British ship even dumped 1,302 slaves into the Atlantic Ocean so that the crew would have plenty of food to eat.
There is little question that the Irish experienced the horrors of slavery as much (if not more in the 17th Century) as the Africans did. There is, also, very little question that those brown, tanned faces you witness in your travels to the West Indies are very likely a combination of African and Irish ancestry. In 1839, Britain finally decided on itโ€™s own to end itโ€™s participation in Satanโ€™s highway to hell and stopped transporting slaves. While their decision did not stop pirates from doing what they desired, the new law slowly concluded THIS chapter of nightmarish Irish misery.

Irish descendants

But, if anyone, black or white, believes that slavery was only an African experience, then theyโ€™ve got it completely wrong.
Irish slavery is a subject worth remembering, not erasing from our memories.


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237 responses to ““How Blacks have Irish Last Names””

    1. Leonard Shanks Avatar
      Leonard Shanks

      My last name is Shanks n I just learned from my dad that iam part Irish. N I was really grateful to lean this. Am Afro-American.

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      1. Leeanne Harkin Mc Kerr Avatar

        My mother in law was called Shanks. We are Irish from the north of Ireland. The subject of Irish slavery is not spoken about too much.

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      2. Leeanne Harkin Mc Kerr Avatar

        my mother in law was called Shanks, we are Irish from the north of Ireland. This article is interesting as the subject of Irish slavery seems to be erased from history.

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      3. Madnewyorker914 Avatar

        I don’t know why you are so proud because they don’t claim you!!! At least they were able to join the white establishment due to their color. And when the draft riots kicked off in New York city a lot of those Irish and Italians turned their hatred and attention on the African Americans!!! They didn’t want to go to war on behalf of the African American, well that’s what they thought it was about,, even though we all know that the civil war wasn’t about the liberation of the black slaves. I have some European and native American ancestry, but I claim African American only!!!

        Liked by 1 person

      4. eyeontorah Avatar

        I understand what you’re saying ny brother. However, let me respond.

        Africa was named after a so-called white man by the name of Scipio Africanus.

        America was named after another so-called white man by the name of Amerigo Vespuci.

        By calling yourself African-American you are still claiming to come from two so-called white men. The byword “African-American” was just adopted by our ppl in the 1980s due to the counsel of our so-called black “leaders” a Jesse Jackson. On December 21, 1988 Jesse Jackson and a group of other black “leaders” officialy declared their support for the term ‘African American’.

        The truth is African-American is not your true nationality. Africans (Hamites) did not sell their own ppl. Africans sold Israelites. Our ppl fled into west and central Africa (Khem aka Ham) after Jerusalem was destroyed by Rome in 70 CE. We were dwelling in Africa before being sold to the so-called white man (Edomites) by the hands of Africans (Hamites, specifically Tyre and Sidon) and Arabs (Palestine). This is what we know today as the Trans-Atlantic and Trans-Saharan slave trades.

        The truth is, you are an Israelite. It was prophesied that our people would go into slavery on ships because we broke God’s commandments.

        Read Deuteronomy Chapter 28 and visit http://www.israelunite.org to learn more.

        Liked by 1 person

    2. Pj Avatar
      Pj

      The Healy familiar is a wonderful exemplar. Father indentured from Ireland mother African slave. Not allowed to marry in Geirgia. Children sent north. Sons James Catholic bishop of Pirtland Maine Patrick Jesuit priest who made Georgetown University. Healy Hall. Tim the first Commodore of the Ciast Gusrd. Sisters founded orders if nuns. Amazing people

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    3. Terry Avatar
      Terry

      Slavery in any format is wrong. So if Irish slavery and African slavery the same why aren’t the Irish suffering the same fate as blacks today. My theory contrary to the hypotheses here is America has made any skin color not light or white a lower lifeforms hence Irish are white I’m I wrong.

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      1. Lee Avatar
        Lee

        Nope you’re absolutely right.

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    4. My Creole Belle Avatar
      My Creole Belle

      Bullshidt!!!! Louisiana is one hundred apologetically AFRICAN roots. One in every eight so called white person in the state of Louisiana has negro ancestry that can be traced back to the past 11 generations. What have the IRISH contributed to Louisisana’s unique and amalgamated cultural heritage like the Cajuns, Creoles and blacks have?!!!!! I am tired of the Irish and their historical lies!!!!! They resented having to serve in the civil war and dis honored black soldiers but they fly Confederate flags proudly. They always had a love-hate relationship with blacks and were quick to terrorize backs to prove their “whitness”. I read “How the Irish Became White”. Take their bone head, broad cranium, drunken, red neck selves and lie to somebody else. They are the dregs of the white race. I’d gladly accept a Cajun than a damn IRISH redneck!!!!!!!

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      1. jai99 Avatar

        @My Creole Belle – You are a perfect example of exactly why the oppressed Irish and blacks never came together and united against their common oppressors; because the oppressors (the ruling class of white racists) loved nothing more than to play the ‘lesser races’ off against each other. This is nothing new, look throughout recorded human history at every time one group has oppressed several other groups – rather than unite as brothers-in-arms and the oppressed groups turn against each other in the hopes of receiving their ‘masters” favour.

        THAT’S why many Irish treated blacks in America and it’s also why many blacks treated Irish badly. And not just black and Irish, but other races/groups as well. All the while the ruling class was laughing at us all.

        Your overt and brazen bigoted comments against the Irish – the kind of comments that would instantly be called ‘racist’ if they were reversed – are a perfect example of this ‘playing off the inferior races against each other’. You see Irish people as part of your ‘oppressors’ because they have the same skin colour, and you resort to the exact racial slurs and derogatory comments that the white English used against them – the same white English that oppressed YOUR ancestors.

        I’m getting pretty sick of people (of all races) whitewashing the oppression of the Irish from history because it doesn’t fit with the ‘white skin = oppressors, everyone else = victims’ narrative. The point that you all seem to be continually missing is that AT THE TIME Irish people weren’t considered to be ‘white’.

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      2. Kate Avatar
        Kate

        You are full of hate just as the Brits have planned, well done you have fallen for the divide and just by giving us the label of white you are empowering us. By calling yourself black you are giving your power away. Words are powerful, they are spells (we are spelling) the word black in middleages means ‘pale’. And you never were shipped anywhere. The brits found you in the new world, the so called African Americans are really the native americans- the moors. But nowadays American people ( so called african americans and redneck irish) are all dumbed down, thats why you are fighting to be the worst treated slaves. Most of these people in america are full of hate poisoned by their governments through their food, water and air. And dont realise you are all from the one race- the human race. Of which you can incarnate into any body next time around. So you hate redneck irish americans? You’ll probably end up as one next lifetime. From a real Irish person, who didnt get shipped over to America but who’s ancestors have fought against the oppression of Britannia and ultimately Rome (the Pope) for over 800years. Don’t hate, this is the game they play against us- the game of colours, divide by colour but I have yet to see a human coloured black or a human coloured white- there is no such thing. Namaste

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    5. Laura Avatar
      Laura

      Where did you find this information? I am a history teacher and I’d like to provide my students with good primary and secondary sources. Please advise.

      X

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      1. Mary Avatar
        Mary

        That’s a very open minded attitude. Apparently it’s perfectly OK to disparage the Irish but don’t make any bigoted remarks that could be interpreted as racist. How hypocritical but typical of the current climate in this country.

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    6. Cay James Avatar
      Cay James

      1) It wasn’t hundreds of thousands of them that were put to work.
      2) Even if it were 100,000 of them (which it wasn’t) , it is already documented that many of them were indentured servant’s-not slaves and there’s a huge difference! Had you read the history on it you know this but even without a history lesson you should’ve been able to logically reason this out abecause in order for us to have their last names it would HAVE TO MEAN THAT THEY WEREN’T SLAVES AT THE TIME because slaves aren’t allowed to have their name live on – only free people did
      and;
      3) even if they were 100,000 Irish slaves (which there were not) how dare you attempt to chastise us for talking about the African holocaust? How dare you compare 100,000 indentured servants and criminals to the kidnapping of 12.5 million people? People who were no longer allowed to speak their own language, practice their own religion, marry who they want to marry, raped, murdered, separated and had absolutely no control over their lives for over 250 years? Why would you even mention those in the same breath?
      You should be ashamed of yourself and I suspect that this is a troll site rather than a site ran by a person of African descent. An African would know better.

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      1. Friend Avatar
        Friend

        Hello Cay James,

        Who were you responding to? I have a hard time following the discussion here, but I have made many replies. Regarding #3 who was making a dare? We shouldn’t be in the business of a numbers game when it comes measuring ils with a much smaller indigenous culture (the native Gaelic Catholics) of Ireland with as compared to the West and Sub-Saharan African regions. Ireland has rather bloody history like these regions of Africa. It might be better to compare them to certain tribes that were all but decimated out would it not?

        I think you should be careful in your condemnation of what you apparently aren’t aware of, Gaelic Catholic culture of Ireland was subjected to English Protestant Supremacy, and Penal Laws imposed by the English Parliamentarian Cromwell in his brutal conquest of Ireland saw to it that the Gaelic Catholic culture be prohibited.

        Did you assume the Irish always spoke English? 250 years you say? Well, invasion, land stealing and slaughter have a good 800 year history in Ireland.

        Let’s not forget the largely convenient (for the British) “Great Famine” (one of many actually, and not the greatest either) with saw 1 to 2 million starve to death, and several more million emigration since the Plantation, settlement and colonization of Ireland.

        When such a small society is reduced in such a short time by nearly half (during the “famine”) there’s a whole host of socio-phycological problems that ensue, one you’ll be familiar with we often make light of now a days when it comes to “The Irish” is: “alcoholism”, but also extreme poverty, broken families, etc, which I’m sure you can relate with as a member of the African American community in the United States am I right?

        If you’d like to learn more about my opinions on “indentured servants” I’ve provided some explanation and sources on this tread in several replies too. Sure there is a difference, but servant is a perhaps a misnomer. “Indentured” is a form of slavery. If you don’t think so then sign over your person to an employer for a while and tell me if that feels like service.

        It’s a shame that Whites and Blacks who were both subjected to British Imperialism have such trouble relating to each other because of the culturally enforced color-lines we’ve all be assimilated into. Maybe it’s time we stop fighting with each other and start learning from each other?

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    7. SonofaSonofaSlave Avatar
      SonofaSonofaSlave

      The Irish were never slaves, they were indentured servants. There is a very large difference between the two terms and are often conflated. Indentured servitude was a poular way of dealing with criminals theoughout the entirety of the British Isles. They entered into an indentured agreement, which was recorded (and can be viewed on many online resources) for a fixed period of time and were subject to the same laws as all subjects of the King. Slaves were never considered to be humans, but rather, chattel, and were subject to the whoms of their masters.

      We must stop perpetuating that the Irish were slaves, it is a fallacy.

      To answer the question that is proposed in the headline, it was primarily due to Irish slave masters and testing the Y chromosome provides evidence of this. In many cases freed slaves took the surname of people who were also kind to them.

      This type if reporting saddens me and is quite irresponsible.

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    8. Susan A Carroll Avatar
      Susan A Carroll

      Not really, because it’s obvious, in which sickins me, I grew up born and raised in San Francisco CA. And I didn’t look at the color of the skin of my brothers nor sisters. I was raised a Catholic.. however one day in cadycissim the nuns instructions were to draw Jesus as we seen him in our eyes, Simple one would think , were talking 4th grade ! So I picked up those big fat ugly crayons .. Wants take a guess on my choice of colors ; Brown, White, Blue, and Black …. I was slapped on the hands with a ruler as she demanded, screaming , and hitting me,!! You changed that right now!!!! I was crying, but I wouldn’t changed the colors of how I seen Jesus. She was so angry, that’s not what Jesus looks like, so I said how do you know,? Have you met Jesus . She RIP up my pictures and took me by the gaur to the principal office where he took his turn and that’s just one example. There were school busses, city busses in which I stood my ground my grandmother let me be she was not of color ,but she wasn’t white nor racist.. I have been enjoying ancestry. 8 years now however something’s were very apolling, sad, disgusted me.shamed me. For I come from many origins but the one of royalty is bmy great grandfather’s, Mother’s, Aunts , Uncle’s whom colonized , partaken in this horrible, horiffic , cruel in human act of the wealthiest plantations and plantation owners.My heart aches for what you’ve been put through and each and every descendants and ancestors.. I know for some sorry isn’t enough and I agree .However I’m more concerned with my family that was shackled, bound, branded raped, sold. I would love to know who you are to me , I want to know my roots from the mother of all mother’s Africa .The Carroll’s missing abd forgotten children..

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    9. Black O'Hara Avatar
      Black O’Hara

      Wrong. We got our hands on slave ledgers. There were Irish owners.

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      1. Friend Avatar
        Friend

        Hi, Black O’Hara,

        I don’t expect people to spot the difference between the Scottish Planters who shared Gaelic names and were approved to move into Ireland and take the land to quell the natives. Nor do I expect people will understand who the English landlords (a.k.a. “Anglo-Irish”) were in Ireland.

        There are points of contention with this article don’t get me wrong, I’m debating the “who suffered” which is not really a secret except it seems in the white-washed Protestant nation that is the United States to which many Blacks seem to be connected with. Let’s recall the words of Dr. King:

        ” ….Protestants and Catholics, will be able to join hands and sing in the words of the old Negro spiritual: โ€œFree at last!” ”

        The predominant slave owners were not “Irish”. Irish was not even a nationality at the time… Catholic hovel living tenant farmers who couldn’t vote, couldn’t hold office, were taxed for their religious beliefs, couldn’t pass the land to their children, couldn’t learn in Catholic schools, had their language officially prohibited, subsisted on the potato, and were largely ignored when they were starving to death by their ruling government (Britain), evicted from their homes, sent off to die in the workhouses of Ireland, women shipped out in the scheme of assisted emigration, did I forget something? Probably.

        So ledgers are a great place to start, but the the ending point.

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      2. jai99 Avatar

        And a minority of slave owners were also black. What’s your point?

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    10. Darla Eboh Avatar
      Darla Eboh

      Dudley or Dudlly is my family name . Does anyone have any further information regarding my family name?

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      1. Friend Avatar
        Friend

        Hi Darla,

        Did you have some knowledge of your name already? This is what I could find so far:

        No statistical reference to Ireland at least on Ancestry:
        http://www.ancestry.com/name-origin?surname=dudley

        Claims its origins are Anglo-Saxon name associated with Worcestershire, England:
        https://www.houseofnames.com/dudley-family-crest

        Originally, this was a surname coming from Dudley in Worcestershire, England. It became a first name in the nineteenth century, and was used in Ireland to anglicise Duald, Dubhdaleithe (‘black man of the two sides’), and Dubhdara. It continues in use.
        http://www.irelandseye.com/irish/traditional/names/first/dudley.shtm

        The name Dudley in Ireland is often of immigrant origin having been introduced into Ulster Province by settlers from England and Scotland, especially during the seventeenth century. The native Gaelic O’Dubhdaleithe Sept of County Cork also sometimes anglicized their name as Dudley, as well as the more usual Dowdall.
        http://www.irishsurnames.com/cgi-bin/gallery.pl?name=dudley&capname=Dudley&letter=d

        All of those point to it being English, British, Anglo-Saxon in origin not “Irish” or Gaelic or Irish-Gaelic for that matter. Unless you know more about your name I would assume it association with immigrant Scottish planters and settlers of Northern Ireland, but it could have been adopted by some of the natives.

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      2. Friend Avatar
        Friend

        Just to add the most interesting reference was to “Dubhdaleithe” adopted in Ireland as a first name according to that link. So ran another search on that and got this:

        http://www.libraryireland.com/names/od/o-dubhdaleithe.php

        There looks to be much more valuable information available if you search on this form of the name.

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    11. Camtrayer Avatar
      Camtrayer

      This is incorrect information. There were no Irish slaves in what is now America. The Irish were indentured servants, similar to Africans in the 1600s. I am black American and have African indentured servants in my lineage. I also have enslaved Africans in my lineage who have an Irish surname. They were owned by an Irish family. If you have not already, you need to do some actual genealogical research on your family to see if you are indeed genetically Irish and if so, if that occurred due to your ancestors being enslaved by an Irish family or the Scots-Irish (they both come up on DNA tests as “Irish”). The Irish and Scots-Irish did indeed own slaves in America and many of their emancipated slaves took their surname. I have about 3 lines of my family in which this happened.

      Please note that the Irish Slave myth is frequently spread online by white supremacist in an attempt to diminish the effect of chattel slavery on black Americans in this country.

      Though slavery did and still occurs worldwide, chattel slavery was an American created tradition whereby the condition of the mother indicated whether or not a child was born free or enslaved. There were no Irish people born in America as a slave based on their mother being a slave. Also the codification of slavery based on race and as a condition of the mother did not fully take effect until the 1700s. Until then, Africans were primarily indentured servants, just like the Irish and other white immigrants to the New World.

      Posting this post is perpetuating the ideology of white supremacy.

      Liked by 1 person

      1. Friend Avatar
        Friend

        Hello Camtrayer,

        “They were owned by an Irish family. If you have not already, you need to do some actual genealogical research on your family to see if you are indeed genetically Irish and if so, if that occurred due to your ancestors being enslaved by an Irish family or the Scots-Irish (they both come up on DNA tests as โ€œIrishโ€). The Irish and Scots-Irish did indeed own slaves in America and many of their emancipated slaves took their surname. I have about 3 lines of my family in which this happened.”

        Close, you’d do well in not stopping there. Who where these owners? We’re they Anglo-Irish landlords? Norman-Catholic gentry? Protestant landholders? Presbyterian freeholders? Certainly not the native potato-eating Catholic tenant farmers with no inheritance.

        Although I’m sure a few were clever enough to rise above and assimilate overseas using their color as an advantage. Just as some Black weren’t slaves, but that is neither representative of the story of American slavery or their lot I would suspect.

        “Though slavery did and still occurs worldwide, chattel slavery was an American created tradition whereby the condition of the mother indicated whether or not a child was born free or enslaved.”

        I’d not opt to tell a modern day slave (servant?) that because they weren’t born into chattel their plight isn’t worth acknowledgement. The terminology is important, which has been duly noted and exaggerated on both ends of the discussion. Indentured servitude is a form of slavery not *voluntary servitude*. Chattel is another form, but we don’t call it chattel servitude, on the other hand slavery and servitude has been used interchangeably with indentured, mostly semantics in regards to an individual vs “a people”. Prisoners whether for rebellion or minor offenses ended up “in service”.

        “Posting this post is perpetuating the ideology of white supremacy”

        Exaggerated claims aside, I’m not sure how unless you give that stuff more credibility than it’s worth. You don’t have to accept their politics any more than you should be insisting on your own when interrupting the past. I’ll make no apologies for White supremacy. History is on the table not politics, but I fully embrace the author of the blog to provide sources in effort to clear up all the confusion that’s been created.

        “There were no Irish people born in America as a slave based on their mother being a slave.”

        I guess that depends on what you consider Irish? Is a Black slave with an Irish father any less Irish than African? I think we have a Black and White view of slavery in general that fails to embrace the reality of admixture insistent on purity much like Jim Crow laws. Sure the law condemned them, but do they have any less right to their heritage than a “White” person? We need to revisit the discussion from a fresh perspective.

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    12. Zombie World Order-The Series Avatar

      So, in a nutshell, after killing millions in an engineered genocide in Ireland, the ruling class developed a conscience suddenly and Irish people got full human status in Antigua? This seems to be the deniers and minimizes position.
      On this issue, as often happens, the ignorant aspirants to “house nigguh” status are still carrying water for the masters. This is a larger issue that could unify people against those who are demonically possessed but still call shots.
      Oh, and by the way, my Irish ancestors fought for the North at Gettysburg, for three hundred dollars and a ticket out of Ireland. They fought their fellow Irishmen in the Confederate army who had similiar motivations.
      Sell whatever lies you like, but if you think the Irish were not deeply involved in some of the fiercest fighting of The Civil War (for both sides), then why would any other opinion you hold be deemed worthy of merit?
      (To the author- great article, well expressed. Thanks for trying to provide some historical fair play to the memory of Irish Slaves.)

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    13. KITTURA DIOR Avatar
      KITTURA DIOR

      Irish were never “enslaved”.

      They were INDENTURED SERVANTS as were the very first Africans brought to the colonies that became the USA… which meant 1) they entered a voluntary agreement to exchange their time for passage to the USA or for some type of apprenticeship or training, 2) after a period of time their SERVICE ended – usually about 7 years. 3) their children and grandchildren were not automatically enslaved or indentured from birth and were free, 4) they were not forced to forget their history, culture religion during their agreement to be indentured.

      That’s just off the top of my head.

      Ben Frankin was indentured for a time to his own cousin.

      As poor people in the same boat, yes there were relationships, marriages etc. that came out of these early times.

      As things evolved though the change from “indentured” to “enslaved” came in a big way because of the darker skin tone making it easier to identify runaways… and the popularity of black Africans entering a lifetime period of slavery is why “indentured servitude” was replaced with full on actual “slavery”.

      Oh and as part of an undergraduate class on American History of Business, I spent a significant portion of that class looking at actual microfilm of ads for at first, RUNAWAY INDENTURED SERVANTS in the USA… and had to evaluate what changed in those ads for runaways as the business of getting help changed from INDENTURED temporary workers to ENSLAVED PROPERTY owned by those placing ads.

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      1. Friend Avatar
        Friend

        Hello KITTURA DIOR,

        Always a good idea not to counter generalizations with more generalizations and no sources. I’ve called for sources supporting the article although I am not entirely in disagreement with it, I’ve provided a source on – Irish indentured *slaves – in this discussion that doesn’t fit with your narrative of “voluntary” service. Are we interested in championing numbers or political views here? I’m confused.

        British Penal Code offenders, Irish Rebels and, the destitute hardly have the power to enter into “voluntary servitude” (whether some poor actually did or not), it would be like calling your dog a voluntary pet. Unless you don’t feel there’s any systematic oppression, which if you take some time studying the oppression of Catholics in Ireland you’d understand.

        Belfast And The Slave Trade:

        “The Snow Hawk, burthen 140 tons, with her apparel boats, *apprentices*, etc., will be sold by publick auction on Monday next, at twelve o’clock in the morning at the Market House in Belfast.”

        “If white apprentices could be sold as part of a ship’s chattels, it is not surprising to learn, according to a further announcement in the same paper, that:

        “A Black Negro man, well qualified in labour and industry, for a gentleman’s house, garden or stable, who has seven years eto serve this nation is now to be disposed of. Inquire at——-”
        — Cathal O’Byrne – As I Roved Out: A Book of The North

        The Merchant Princes of Belfast (West India Traders) where rebuked by Thomas McCabe the Watchmaker of North Street for attempting to establish the slave trade there. This was a passage from the book noted above.

        Were these apprentices chattel? Did they have a say in being sold off to a new master? Was that part of their original contract? How did they enter said contract in the first place? Lots of questions still to be answered. Best we can all do is read.

        Like

  1. nydiasimone Avatar

    Its a shame that people can create whole new histories. and then share it for the world to see. smh

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    1. Bob Zyerunkl Avatar

      History is only created in the past . Forgetting the past opens the door to repeating its horrors . Do you not believe that the Irish people suffered for centuries under British domination ?

      Like

    2. redshoes51 Avatar

      You would be amazed at what all of history has been ‘created’…

      Like

    3. Jill Avatar
      Jill

      There have always been slaves, everywhere, all over the world, just as there has always been war and violence. It’s my understanding that there are still people enslaved, although it is done secretly, and/or the laws are manipulated to accommodate it…but it’s still happening, yet today. And of course, if you’re starving, and there are no jobs anywhere, and there’s no healthcare…well, what difference does it make if you’re not “enslaved”? If you’re essentially dying a slow death, it might as well be slavery. There are still people living under those conditions, especially in Africa…Sierra Leone, for example. People don’t make it to age 40 there.

      Like

    4. jai99 Avatar

      It’s also a shame that some people can choose to ignore whole real and existing histories because they don’t fit with those people’s world views.

      Liked by 1 person

  2. mandiamanda Avatar

    Reblogged this on poems.

    Like

  3. Susan Rivera Avatar
    Susan Rivera

    I’m so saddened and grateful for all of your research on this. Another part of history that is not covered in our history books.

    Like

    1. eduardo716 Avatar

      This is news to me

      Like

      1. mgray23 Avatar

        This has already been disproven. THe Irish slavery myth is a white supremacist’s push back against the very real phenomenon of southern slavery.
        https://www.splcenter.org/hatewatch/2016/04/19/how-myth-irish-slaves-became-favorite-meme-racists-online

        View at Medium.com

        There WERE absentee Irish SLAVEOWNERS. Stop with this damn lie.

        Like

    2. eduardo716 Avatar

      This is news to me thanks

      Like

    3. ladystclaire Avatar

      The powers that be, have kept a lot of the truth where history covered up because, its all so ugly as well as in humane!!!!!!!!

      Hell is running over, with the evilness of man’s inhumanity to their fellow men, women and children.

      Liked by 1 person

      1. Alearner Avatar
        Alearner

        Truth

        Like

    4. Anna McKnight Ellis Avatar

      Please stop, bad mouthing people, that sacrifice their time to look through many books to put stories together in order to bring us something new. if you don’t believe it, then so be it, I want to believe it because I know the lady very well, that shared another ladies work for us, be kind to one another, because the good book says we are all related, because of Adam and Eve. Jesus was born in the mid east, why do people believe that his hair is blond and straight, and have white skin, even hanging on the walls of black people, along with Martin Luther King, Malcolm x, John Kennedy. My maiden name is Mc Knight

      Liked by 1 person

      1. Sarah Harris Avatar
        Sarah Harris

        You are so wrong common sense should tell you how did all colors come from 2 people. It didn’t GOD made all the races and it was good. Adam and Eves bloodline was where JESUS came through, if people only knew this all this hatred for each other skin color would not exist. But you will find out the truth when JESUS comes back to reign for a thousand years to teach his people the truth, because they have been believing a lie about a rapture theory.

        Liked by 1 person

  4. Antonio Bowser Avatar
    Antonio Bowser

    Wow! I guess that’s why they call it history. I never heard of this before, yes, of course, I’ve heard of the indentured servant history, but not the actual brutal enslavement of the Irish people. This reveals another cruel and inhumane treatment of the human family towards each other. The strong over the weak. Sad!

    Liked by 1 person

  5. Tekknight Avatar

    Slavery is age old and always horrific. I’m just now learning the depth of how horrible Irish slavery was. We should remember this and not let one injustice isn’t used to counter the other.

    Liked by 1 person

  6. Carole Willis Avatar
    Carole Willis

    I enjoy being educated, there is so much to learn that I wish our young people were taught, so they would love instead of hating each other.

    Liked by 1 person

  7. Tanycha Avatar
    Tanycha

    Thank you for this information. My grandparent on my mother’s side has an Irish maiden name and said her mother married twice, both times to Murphies. Her first husband was White and her second husband was Black. I never learned the whole story of how though unrelated, both husbands had the same Irish surname. Do you have any references from which I can further research this? Very interesting.

    Liked by 1 person

  8. Marianne Holt Avatar
    Marianne Holt

    Perhaps I missed something in the text. I’m curious to know how/why the Irish slaves were able to keep their Irish last names?Traditionally slaves had to take on their owner’s last name.

    Like

    1. Mildred pierce Avatar
      Mildred pierce

      Really good point. This is further evidence that despite the evil of Irish slavery, Irish slaves were strangely still seen as human. Well, human enough to retain their own name. Whereas black African slaves were COMPLETELY stripped of their identity and had to assume the surname of their master. Thus leaving no question that they were property and not human in the eyes of planters

      Like

      1. Ann Marie Fallon Avatar
        Ann Marie Fallon

        The Irish already had last names in English, most Irish names are now written in English. The Irish language was systematically eliminated in Ireland until the resurgence in the 1920’s. Africans had names that made no sense to the English speaking enslavers, so they gave them English names. For example, I am irish and my name in Irish is Aine Maire O’Fallanhaim, but it was Anglicized to Ann Marie Fallon by the British. So, no, Irish did not get to keep their names, they got to keep their anglicized names, just like African slaves

        Liked by 2 people

      2. Jason Anthony Trotter Avatar

        Good question.

        I mean,….

        Yes, why were the Less valued Irish allowed to keep their last names, But Blacks were completely stripped of everything, even their identity.

        But we still must take into consideration that the Irish were hated for being Catholics, and that this was the main reason behind making them into slaves.

        Is what happend to the Irish also a fulfillment of prophecy?

        Or was it an indirect outcome of the permition of owning slaves?

        I’m other words,….
        Did the heathen of the earth not only enslave the physical Israelites, (those being blacks and Native Americans),
        But even also his own people as a mere result of the kind of things that happen when the wicked are in rule?

        Or was the heaten allowed to do this in a kind of prophetic way?

        Could the Irish in specific have something to do with what the most High is doing in (“phisical”) (black) Israel?

        Or,… Is what happened to the Irish just a mere part of what happens to all, and to any of the different nations of men who are affected by the wicked works of the heathen?

        Like

      3. Carrie Avatar
        Carrie

        From what I understand, the African slaves didn’t have or use last names during that time period. When they came to America they where made to take the last name of the slave owner. I assume many of the ones the worked side by side with the Irish slaves used their last name in hopes of not being made to take the slave owners name. I could be totally wrong on this but it’s what I’ve read when I did my research.

        Like

      4. Rez Avatar
        Rez

        Or the African names were difficult to pronounce and not common to them so they gave them a name that was easier?

        Like

      5. Nina Avatar
        Nina

        Maybe because the African names were too hard to pronounce.

        Like

      6. Georgia Avatar
        Georgia

        Unlike the African slaves, the Irish were physically indistinguishable from the English. Keeping their Irish surnames would help to differentiate the two groups.

        Like

    2. c0d3m4u5 Avatar
      c0d3m4u5

      ^ this. everyone in my family has Irish last names and when looking at my family tree, the ones who are listed as mulattoes in my family have no father listed, but have their mother listed as “negro”. in addition, when i go back as far as i could to the 1800s, i have relatives still with Irish and Scot last names so that’s why I don’t think this article is entirely accurate about the last names. I think the more realistic story of how many Blacks got Irish last names is that there were rich Irish who owned slaves too. Maybe wealthy Irish weren’t common, but they they did exist.

      Like

      1. Marie Avatar
        Marie

        I totally agree with you that all Irish were not slaves.
        My Great great great grandmother was the daughter of an Irish Slave Owner.

        Like

      2. Paddyboy Avatar
        Paddyboy

        Wealthy “irish” were Protestants who were placed there by England to control and rule the Native population. True Irish (native non-protestants) were not even allowed to own property in Ireland until the early 1800’s. Even then these were primarily “yes men” and traitors, easily disposed of and replaced. Although there were Irish Pirates who participated in the slave trade on behalf of France, they did not discriminate and would take Irish or African slaves to sell. Native’s did not participate in the slave trade.

        Liked by 2 people

      3. MEB Avatar
        MEB

        Paddyboy, and a lot (not all, obviously) of the Irish coming to the colonies weren’t Irish either, but came from UK families who spent a few generations in Ireland, then moved on. That’s what the bulk of my “Irish” ancestors really were: Scottish, English, Cornish, etc.

        Liked by 1 person

      4. Theresia Hunter-Nelson Avatar
        Theresia Hunter-Nelson

        I can trace my Ancestry on my Maternal Grandmother’s (Father’s) side of the Family Tree back to Ireland. The Surname is MAY and the earliest records indicate……1704 in the US. GG Father, May , a wealthy man owned African/Native American Slaves in parts of Georgia and sired two sets of children. The Anglo-Saxon offspring he openly acknowledged. The latter he did not.

        Like

      5. Joey Avatar

        The Irish landowners where Protestant and therefore considered British. They owned the land in Ireland too where Catholic Irish worked on their lands. No Irish Catholic had the right to own land in Ireland. Read up on the potato famine. Interesting read on the landowners and the British rule in Ireland

        Liked by 1 person

    3. Arlinda Avatar
      Arlinda

      If they were able to keep their names and their identities, there is no way that Irish people were treated as poorly as African people. I am sure that the Irish were treated as “less than” other white settlers, but to say their treatment was equal to or worse than the treatment of African slaves is not probable. And I would love to see references that prove that White Irish people were less expensive to “purchase” than African slaves.

      Like

      1. Mary Palmer Avatar

        Well than do research and prove yourself right instead of arguing out of not knowing.

        Like

      2. Jeff Avatar
        Jeff

        If I had to hazard a guess, I’d say familiarity. “I can say MacIntyre, I don’t know what a Mwanajna is, I’ll call you Mo.” Similar to many of the “Americanized” name changes coming through Ellis Island.
        Again, just a guess.

        Like

      3. Sligoir Avatar
        Sligoir

        Why because only blacks get to claim such horrible treatment of their people? The Irish were treated as less of a person than blacks, maybe not worthy of the slave owner’s name! Maybe blacks were named because they didn’t speak english! To doubt that the Irish could be treated worse and be so adamant about it because of what you have been told your whole life makes you a bigot!

        Like

      4. Nina Avatar
        Nina

        We’ll never know for sure. Maybe in a generalized way, but can never say for each individual. A less cruel owner with black slaves who do not forget we’re more valuable, would treat them better than a meaner person with Irish, and visa versa. But animals of higher value are often treated better than less. It would be the same with people. The whole thing is rotten no matter who. White people can treat their own quite horribly, history tells. English treated Irish deplorably. But this should not turn into a contest of who had it worst. Since the black slavery prevailed, likely it was worse. As far as the name changes it was probably due to pronunciations not so much of stripping the names, doubt the traders/owners cared either way, whatever would be easiest.

        Like

      5. Mary Avatar
        Mary

        The fact that you refer to them as “settlers” is disturbing. Also, what is the point if making a caste system of victims. I am quite sure that being held against you will is inhumane regardless of your color or religion. Should we question if being enslaved was not as horrific for those who were lighter skinned because the may not have has as harsh living conditions? Why can’t we acknowledge all the suffering that occurred without saying whose may have been more painful. Why do we continue to ignore the pain of others?

        Like

      6. aine Avatar
        aine

        look im from ireland we are not racist people. if you go to a protestant area in belfast they are putting polish and africans out of the area. the protestants in belfast are from scottish/english back gronds. you go to an irish catholic area and you will see paintings of nelson mandela on the walls and other people we support the oppressed always have. and yes we did get it hard from the british in our own homeland of ireland occuppied for years 800 years of rape murder and torture. the ira was formed so we could have more rights. we live beside the english and have been treated badly for a long time.

        Like

      1. Teeswap Avatar
        Teeswap

        You’re in denial.

        Like

      2. Paul Avatar
        Paul

        Maybe those books can help you…there’s many more, this is not something made up by one person on one website…

        Like

      3. Gerwill Avatar
        Gerwill

        the Germans claimed that no Jews were being murdered but they were lying too.

        Liked by 1 person

      4. OneHanded Avatar
        OneHanded

        Yeah, well done Harrison, first bit I read about James II’s proclamation 8 years before he was even born cracked me up! If you can’t even get that right!!!!

        Like

    4. chrisanthemum7 Avatar
      chrisanthemum7

      Okay, good cuz I was like, “huh??” Irish slaves suffered as much as black people did… so they married each other?? Like, I’m confused.

      Like

    5. Irish Avatar

      Agreed. I have an Irish last name

      Like

    6. Catherine Wood Avatar

      It had to do with language. No one could understand the African language. They could understand the Irish.

      Like

      1. Tony Avatar
        Tony

        Not really. The native Irish spoke Gaelic. The English settlers (the masters in Ireland, supported by the English/British army) spoke English. Gaelic would not have been understood any more than African languages in the new world.

        Like

    7. john orr Avatar
      john orr

      My name is John Orr and im dark ass hell ๐Ÿ˜„any Orrs on here.

      Like

    8. plookster Avatar

      Erm, just a thought, but most Irish of the day would have had some knowledge of English, or been fluent. Their names would have been familiar enough to any English masters. Communicating with an African would have been a completely different matter, and names would have been unpronounceable and incomprehensible to any white slave owner. i.e. it made things a whole lot easier to change their names.

      Like

  9. Stephanie Shannon Avatar

    Thank you for sharing the madness and anger that lives within my Irish family. They don’t even notice it (MEAN). I met this white Irish woman she said we were labeled as the mean black Irish.

    Like

  10. John-Wesley Avatar
    John-Wesley

    …the Irish along with other white Europeans were considered ‘Indentured Servants’…Indentured Servants were those people who owed money..or inherited family debts..and could work off the debts..some of these people were brought over to do just that..after they earned their way out of debt they were free from obligation…furthermore their day to day lives while being indentured were less stringent than that of the African slave….this articles conflates the status of slave and indentured servant as being similar when they were absolutely not…indentured servants actually had rights..yes they were treated miserably..but their status was far higher than that of a black man or woman…furthermore the statement that there were no Irish slave owners in the Americas is absolutely inaccurate…so to infer that every black person with an Irish last name is the result of the mixing of these indenture servants who lovingly gave their last names to offspring is simply off base…and perpetuates serious misinformation…

    Liked by 1 person

  11. John-Wesley Walker Avatar
    John-Wesley Walker

    THE MYTH OF ‘IRISH SLAVERY’ is A LIE “…The tale of the Irish slaves is rooted in a false conflation of indentured servitude and chattel slavery. These are not the same. Indentured servitude was a form of bonded labour, whereby a migrant agreed to work for a set period of time (between two and seven years) and in return the cost of the voyage across the Atlantic was covered. Indentured servitude was a colonial innovation that enabled many to emigrate to the New World while providing a cheap and white labour force for planters and merchants to exploit. Those who completed their term of service were awarded โ€˜freedom duesโ€™ and were free. The vast majority of labourers who agreed to this system did so voluntarily, but there were many who were forcibly transplanted from the British Isles to the colonies and sold into indentured service against their will. While these forced deportees would have included political prisoners and serious felons, it is believed that the majority came from the poor and vulnerable. This forced labour was in essence an extension of the English Poor Laws, e.g. in 1697 John Locke recommended the whipping of those who โ€˜refused to workโ€™ and the herding of beggars into workhouses. Indeed this criminalisation of the poor continues into the 21st century. In any case, all bar the serious felons were freed once the term of their contract expired.

    โ€œWhite indentured servitude was so very different from black slavery as to be from another galaxy of human experience,โ€ as Donald Harman Akenson put it in If the Irish Ran the World: Montserrat, 1630-1730. How so? Chattel slavery was perpetual, a slave was only free once they they were no longer alive; it was hereditary, the children of slaves were the property of their owner; the status of chattel slave was designated by โ€˜raceโ€™, there was no escaping your bloodline; a chattel slave was treated like livestock, you could kill your slaves while applying โ€œmoderate correctionโ€ and the homicide law would not apply; the execution of โ€˜insolentโ€™ slaves was encouraged in these slavocracies to deter insurrections and disobedience, and their owners were paid generous compensation for their โ€˜lossโ€™; an indentured servant could appeal to a court of law if they were mistreated, a slave had no recourse for justice. And so on..”

    Liked by 1 person

    1. wolfsilveroak Avatar
      wolfsilveroak

      Read Des Ekinsโ€™ The Stolen Village.

      http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/the-stolen-village-des-ekin/1113681635?ean=9781847174314#productInfoTabs

      English landowners would literally pay pirates to come and raid entire villages on the Irish land they owned, to get rid of the renters so the landowner could do as he wished with the land. Whole towns disappeared into the MIddle East and North Africa as a result.

      Irish slavery is *not* a myth, nor is it a lie. What may be a mytth, however, is the numbers posited in the original article.

      Like

    2. aine Avatar
      aine

      go and read about cromwell in ireland. the diffrence is the irish support other oppressed nations not cry that they were treated worst. we were brought up to fight oppression we refused to fight the mexicans when sent there by americans. as we see them as brothers no matter what skin tone you have.

      Like

  12. buttacup972 Avatar

    Thanks 4 Sharing I Got My DNA I have 21% Irish blood and My last Name is Sharp its good 2 know but it’s still so much hatred in the world.!!

    Liked by 1 person

  13. Rirhandzu Marivate Avatar

    As a South African, I know slavery was never just of the African people. This country was built on slavery of Asians, Indians, and Africans followed by the systematic oppression of those people by the English and Dutch…

    Liked by 1 person

  14. Mildred pierce Avatar
    Mildred pierce

    Interesting. But you lost me where you said ‘Irish slaves were treated worse than African slaves’. There is far too much historical EVIDENCE of the inhuman way Africans were treated. Example, the habitual practice of African slaves being thrown off ships in transit and subsequently drowned/murdered , so slave owners could claim insurance. You were right that African slaves were an expensive commodity, doesn’t mean they were valued by being treated well in any capacity.

    Remember the sexual abuse of African slaves was the key to keeping the slave population going. And so white planters were secured in their thinking that slaves were disposable because they could easily be created. You also haven’t delved into how racism could have played into how African and Irish slaves were treated. Irish slaves were still white. Since their skin looked like their masters skin did they benefit from any type privilege- no matter how small? Bear in mind black African slaves had the stigma of being likened to animals, mentally backwards and being treated as savage- Which was part of the propaganda system to justify black Africans being enslaved.

    Liked by 1 person

    1. TAL Avatar
      TAL

      You all talking rubbish, Under 800 years of English rule millions of irish died at the hand of the British. Dont think for one second that Irish were liked by their british landlords. They were dispised, were not allowed practice thier own religion, keep their own gaelic name, Own any kind of property, and denied the use of thier own language. This is not about which was treated worse, seems like a game your all going on about, This is about the systematic destruction of nations by the British in these times, i hear noone talking about how ruteless and horrific the British were, they make the Nazi’s look like Saints. The article highlights the horrors that happened, The extent of which is nightmarish. Condem slavery not the people trying to highlight history.

      Like

      1. wolfsilveroak Avatar
        wolfsilveroak

        It appears that everyone, including you, completely ignored my comment where I pointed out that the British would hire pirates, specifically Barbary Pirates from North Africa and the Middle eatern areas, to raid entire Irish villages with the intent of wiping out said village so the British could take over the land and do with it as they wish. And they did this systemically and repeatedly.

        Des Ekin’s The Stolen Village is about the village of Baltimore where this in particular happened.

        It does not, however, change the fact that the *numbers* of Irish taken and sold into indenturehood or outright slavery in this article are not born out by any factual evidence.

        Very few are disputing that the British were horrific to the Irish, and to some extent, the Scottish as well. We are, however, disputing the numerical ‘facts’ posited in this article. And the extremely vague, tenuous claims as to how blacks may have acquired Irish or Scottish surnames.

        Like

      2. Egads! Avatar
        Egads!

        @wolfsilveroak I suggest you re-read the book. Baltimore was an english town, the pirates were directed to it by an Irishman (Hackett), and the english inhabitants were shipped off to North Africa. The pirates let the Irish Gaels go free.

        There’s no question that the Irish weren’t treated very well. But this example is of the opposite. Hackett was later hung for what he did.

        Like

      3. aine Avatar
        aine

        could not agree more british took irish men in the 70s and 80s in belfast beat and tortured them the british government was later charged with crimes of humanity by the european courts.

        Like

    1. Lloyd Bravewolf Cox Avatar
      Lloyd Bravewolf Cox

      Right On! And thanks for your input.

      Like

  15. Louis Vaughn Avatar
    Louis Vaughn

    Only problem – how did the irish slaves keep their names. Africans were renamed, what about the irish? After they were freed, when their slave trade ended, they were made overseers, given african slaves, made to believe they were part of the white establishment.

    Like

  16. Jackie Avatar
    Jackie

    I was born in Jamaica & was told a little about this by an Irish funeral director. The bad words Jamaicans curse originated from Ireland. I watch an old Irish movie years ago and when the old lady washing her clothes in a pan was cursing someone saying “what the rass cloth,”

    Like

  17. mack carter Avatar
    mack carter

    So when the Irish were sold off in the West Indies, Jamaica, America, Australia and these other countries. They were allowed to keep their last names? McDonald, McFadden, and not take the last names of the slave owners, of Smith, Washington, Jefferson, like the black slaves did. And this is how blacks ended up with Irish last names.

    Like

    1. Mary Palmer Avatar

      No, they liked they Irish accents so much that they took on the names out of respect

      Like

    2. Tomas Avatar
      Tomas

      Irish version of McFadden = MacPรกidรญn, Irish version of McDonald = MacDhรฒmhnaill. All Irish were given English translated names and forced to use them. Today there are lots of Irish people reverting to their original names and not the English versions.

      Like

    3. aine Avatar
      aine

      go and watch the black irish of monsaretti they are proud of there irish hertiage and know that there ancsters were from ireland and africa

      Like

  18. Eddy P. Hamelin, MLIS Avatar

    Reblogged this on A Day in a Life of a Military Archivist *Eddy Hamelin* and commented:
    Quite interesting piece of history here – I just had to share with all of you.

    Like

  19. gary dingle Avatar

    This may have some truth but how does this compare with Jim Crow and the continued racism experienced by Blacks in 2015? There has been slavery of some form for as long as humans have been homosapiens. My last name is Dingle. The slave owners of my ancestors were Dingles. Dingle is English but common in Ireland.
    How did Blacks end up with Irish names? The article failed to explain that.
    Also, there is one difference between White Indentured servants or slaves and Black slaves in a country where Blacks are legally considered property. When a White indentured servant or slave walked away or escaped his master or owner, he or she could go just about any place they choose and live their lives as free White people. Simply put, they could blend in and have a life. However, Black slaves were oppressed intellectually, religiously and physically if they attempted to escape or did anything wrong. Blacks could not blend in to normal society because most Blacks where slaves and most were not educated and they were not accepted in major segments of the country as entirely human.
    I think it is dishonest to compare slavery based on race with indentured servitude or slavery based on economic status or country of origin. But, the tone of the article seemed to suggest that Blacks should not feel like they have been singled out bullied because the Irish was also subjected to indentured servitude or slavery. It is a shallow attempt and more nonsense than anything. There were no Jim Crow laws restricting Irish. If they existed they were unenforceable because Irish did not have to change their race to blend in and be accepted. Also, this foolish comparison fails to acknowledge the differences between indentured servitude and real slavery.
    The main difference is that 600,000 people died in a civil war to end Black slavery, not Irish indentured service. The South seceded from the Union because they wanted to keep their slaves that provided them with human field animals, human sex toys and the freedom to do anything they wanted with their human property. Often, female Blacks slaves were impregnated by their masters to create more slaves. Impregnating Black slaves was a way to increase the wealth of the slave owners.
    African Americans where emancipated because they needed it. Irish indentured servants were not emancipated. Jim Crow laws where formulated to keep Blacks in their place, not the Irish.
    When Blacks succeeded in creating wealth and communities that allowed Blacks to have good lives, they were systematically destroyed by angry envious bigoted white people of every background including Irish. Personally, I am offended not by the story and the facts, but by the dishonest comparison. You could have provided the information minus the dishonest comparison if the facts of the story are accurate.
    Slavery was a terrible condition to place on any people. Slavery is a terrible condition to place on people. Slavery of some form exists now. However, most Blacks in the USA donโ€™t have to deal with slavery. Slavery is not the problem we have to endure. Black people donโ€™t think or worry about slavery. Though we donโ€™t want that ugly past to be forgotten, rewritten or soften to make Whites feel better about them-selves, the issues we worry about are those we have to deal with currently. Those issues are the racism, the bigotry and the discrimination we face daily.

    Liked by 2 people

    1. Roman Szwaba Avatar
      Roman Szwaba

      … well said …

      Like

    2. Black irish Avatar
      Black irish

      SPOT ON!

      Like

    3. armand catenaro Avatar
      armand catenaro

      good reply. there is another book to read; which indicates that the so-called American Revolution was spurred on by slave revolts in the west indies. “The Counter-Revolution of 1776: slave resistance and the origins of the United States of America.” And yes, it is as long as its title….I’m still trying to wade through it

      Like

    4. Karen Avatar
      Karen

      I agree. This article tries to make it seem as if black slaves had it far better than Irish slaves or indentured servants. No need to compare the two as slavery in any form or fashion is wrong…no matter to what extent it was practiced.

      Like

    5. mystique Avatar
      mystique

      Thank you

      Like

    6. arlene3215 Avatar

      I’m curious please describe the discrimination that you face everyday personally?

      Like

    7. arlene3215 Avatar

      I’m curious. Please describe discrimination that you personally face everyday?

      Like

      1. Rashid Hasan Avatar

        I would ask when was the last time a police-person STOPED you just because you looked the part of something bad O or you go to a nice store and your treated as if your a thief

        Like

    8. MsReed Avatar
      MsReed

      Omg. So incredibly well said and so true. You cannot ‘water down’ the mistreament of black slaves and the CONTINUED systematic/institutional oppression of black people. There really is no comparison! Smh.

      Thank you Gary Dingle…loved reading your response.

      Like

    9. Digital Heritage ireland Avatar

      good response Gary for putting a Blog into perspective.

      Like

    10. Tomesara de Gradde Avatar

      There is truth in what you say. My only counter comment would be that slavery still exists in 21st century US through its prison industrial complex ….. According to Antonio Moore in his Huffington Post article, “there are more African American men incarcerated in the U.S. than the total prison populations in India, Argentina, Canada, Lebanon, Japan, Germany, Finland, Israel and England combined.” There are only 19 million African American males in the United States, collectively these countries represent over 1.6 billion people.[8]The Black Male Incarceration Problem is Real and Catastrophic – Huffington Post. How do prisoners spend their time? fulfilling government and community contracts for various agencies varying from state to state….

      Like

      1. James F Avatar

        If they committed a crime that warranted jail time, they deserved the sentence. No one forced them to commit a crime. As far as Slavery in jail(BS) They can do their time sitting in their cells doing nothing or they can work to earn money for the commissary or to help pay money they owe to the people or places on which they committed their crimes. Hardly slavery, it’s a choice. I don’t care what race you are, if you want to commit crime be ready to do the time and stop crying that you got caught and the other criminals got away.

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      2. James F Avatar

        If These men are in jail serving time for committing a crime, I have no sympathy for them or anyone else serving time. As far as calling them slaves for working while serving their sentence (BS). Working is a choice and they get paid for their work. It’s usually done to earn money for the commissary or to pay back a debt to the person they committed the crime on.

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    11. 1stGenCan Avatar
      1stGenCan

      Very well said.

      Like

    12. Jonathan Vallot Avatar
      Jonathan Vallot

      I cannot speak for what may have happened in America and it is true that we Irish don’t suffer from racism in this day and age. But during the times of slavery in America the Irish people (in Ireland) were subjected to the penal laws, which I suspect were similar the the Jim Crow laws. http://library.law.umn.edu/irishlaw/subjectlist.html

      And this documentary shows the conditions of life for Irish catholics during that time. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FDVhUQXElTE

      I will never make any claim of who was better off or who had it worse. Such things only serve to bring further division among human beings. I will just say that both existed and as such proves that anyone who is racist and thinks they are justified in being racist is wrong because even with differences of culture, tradition and society all people are the same and we should all treat each other equally and with equal respect. Racism is one of many mechanisms designed to keep people divided and oppressed, and it only serves to further the interest of evil people.

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    13. BryanClay Avatar
      BryanClay

      Excellent points. Truth well stated.

      Like

  20. Jack Avatar
    Jack

    A great book to read is:To Hell or Barbados

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  21. Terence J. Hughes Avatar
    Terence J. Hughes

    There were three waves of Irish immigration to America, the 17th century Irish slaves described above, the 18th century Irish immigrants who settled along the Appalachian frontier and were shepherded by Presbyterian ministers because Catholic priests had a 5 pound bounty on their heads, and the mostly Catholic 19th century immigrants who settled in cities and took over the Democrat Party.

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  22. Black Scholar Avatar
    Black Scholar

    It should be titled “How SOME Blacks Have Irish Names” the “Who, When, Where” matters.

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  23. Arlinda Avatar
    Arlinda

    If they were able to keep their names and their identities, there is no way that Irish people were treated as poorly as African people. I am sure that the Irish were treated as โ€œless thanโ€ other white settlers, but to say their treatment was equal to or worse than the treatment of African slaves is not probable. And I would love to see references that prove that White Irish people were less expensive to โ€œpurchaseโ€ than African slaves.

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  24. Roman Szwaba Avatar
    Roman Szwaba

    Despite my Polish name I am from Irish heritage on my mother’s side (O’Kanes) and knew how much she and the family still spoke of the atrocities of Cromwell … so much as I would like to believe this it doesn’t stand up to the evidence … this does … https://www.opendemocracy.net/beyondslavery/liam-hogan/%E2%80%98irish-slaves%E2%80%99-convenient-myth

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  25. spinmas Avatar
    spinmas

    a male black slave cannot transfer an Irish last name….so it would have had to be a male Irish slave mating with an African slave women who would not have been the owner of the slave child , it would have to have the name of the white owner, so riddle us that??

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  26. spinmas Avatar
    spinmas

    As I said an Irish female slave mating with an African slave could not transfer his last name because it was the name of a white owner, if an Irish male slave mated with an African slave she would not get his slave name, it would be the property of the white owner, riddle us this…???

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  27. Sharon Avatar
    Sharon

    I have heard of some of the stories of the Irish slave trade; however, the black slaves in American took their last names from their ‘masters’; who usually had Scottish, Irish, or English last names. The Irish in this group would be the ones who were protestant (sometimes referred to as Scot-Irish) and were pro-England. The Irish Catholics did not not migrate voluntarily to the America’s until the 1850’s when the Irish Potato Famine hit their country.

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  28. Shelia Horne Avatar

    I think there is lots of information here that people should know about. The history of the Irish enslavement should not be swept under the rug. The Irish were treated HORRIBLY, often just as horribly as Africans—but not always.
    The way you glossed over this with comments like “The settlers began to breed Irish women and girls with African men,” as if the African men (and women and children) weren’t also being raped, and bred with each other and Irish people and slave owners.
    Saying that the Irish were treated worse because they were Catholic might be so on the occasional individual basis, but as a group, they didn’t have their history, their names, and even the memories of their religions and homelands stripped from them. They can still go back to Ireland and see where they came from and even meet distant cousins.
    They were abused and belittled for being Irish and Catholic; they were considered worthless and heathen—but they were seen as worthless and heathen *humans*, at a time when being heathen was a much bigger deal than it is now, even while being traded as property.
    Africans were *things*. The Africans were considered less than apes, incapable of learning, and the forced inter-breeding with the Irish women was eventually made illegal because it was considered an abomination to force even the “least among White women” to copulate with an animal. And the traditional double-standard was upheld even there, because as long as it was circumspect and everyone turned a blind eye, it was still common, un-punished behavior for White males to rape or copulate with African females, but a blasphemous abomination for a white woman to voluntarily “have relations” with an African man, and could result in death for both.
    When did the Irish get declared “human”? When did the law stop saying that “one drop” of Irish blood could give people the legal right to kill, segregate, or abuse you? At what point did marrying an Irish person stop being illegal and considered bestiality? There are no dates for these events, because these were not, and are not, issues faces by Irish slaves and Irish indentured servants.
    (And, yes, it is a fact that that term, “indentured servitude,” was mostly just used as a polite term for “*slightly* less brutal slavery from which there was actually hope of escape”.)

    I think it was disingenuous to tell their story by minimizing the horrors experienced by African slaves. There wasn’t even a need for comparison, let along doing so while ignoring all the other colors of people who were enslaved and abused.

    This entire article reads like those oh-so-learned-sounding pieces that explain why women are simply not suited to traditionally male jobs, or why Black Americans by design and selection are simply not suitable for the sciences or for generic “corporate America,” and should stick to sports and physical labor. It could easily be claimed by any of those writers who like to push their political agendas by denying facts in evidence and making up effects and results that sound plausible, but simply did not happen, or do not have the meanings that those writers freely attach to them.

    A few known facts and a few overstated kernels of truth give a false, gleaming varnish of Truth Exposed when twisted around implications and presumptions based on false logic, when they’re confidently stated as reality, and lead the non-critical reader to unquestioningly believe exactly what the writer has skewed their words to lead them to believe. Politicians and ad writers do it daily.

    You don’t have to deny the history of one people’s suffering to expose that of the other.

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    1. aine Avatar
      aine

      well said

      Like

  29. EttaD Avatar

    Reblogged this on Simply Etta D. and commented:
    This is so true, Africans have claimed slavery as their own. However, there have been many others who suffered in slavery.

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  30. EttaD Avatar

    I’ve often had arguments on the very same topic, because blacks have claimed slavery as our own. But there are many others who have suffered under slavery, the Irish as you mentioned here, also the Scottish, Jews (black, German, French…..).

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  31. JAHJAH Avatar
    JAHJAH

    VERY EDUCATIONAL

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  32. Haddon Musings Avatar

    Oh my, I never heard about this. I always wondered why so many African Americans had the same last name as I did when I was single. Thanks for this fascinating post.

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  33. Jay Bee Avatar
    Jay Bee

    Brannon is my maiden name and it is an Irish name. Thanks for this powerful information.

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  34. CarMen Avatar

    The writer of this article conflates two different things – geographical/national origin and skin colour/illusionary race category. At the time the Irish were indentured or enslaved or some similar term, the Irish were not yet categorized as “white” but as just “Irish.” Read “How the Irish became white.” Then also read “The Invention of the White Race.”

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  35. Tamir nixon Avatar
    Tamir nixon

    Good information and horrible pass but good to know and tell others about it

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  36. Nicole Avatar
    Nicole

    This is absolutely fascinating. I have never heard of these Irish. I do know my last name Orr is Scottish Irish but I don’t know much else. All of the people I have ever met with the last name Orr have been white, I’m a brown girl. I would love to know more, this has opened a window in my life. Thank youโค๏ธ

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  37. ELLA WIMBUSH Avatar

    Instead of using the word slaves, they were paid $per head and this made their enslavement different from that of blacks,so they became Indentured servants so were..the Asians mostly Indians..all the Mcdonald McCain McCoy all the Mc are Scottish ..to increased the whites population they send debtors ,who couldn’t pay what they owe, and repeat criminals , the later date up to 1918 children were removed from orphanages from all across England. .Ireland Scotland Wales ..even babies. .were…not left out..some of those babies are in their 80ts 90ths now..but the whites in this categories are ashamed and don’t talk about it..the kkk originated from the fear of free slaves coming to take their jobs..as some black slaves were doing better than the indentured servants. .and the slaves owners trusted their long time slaves than the white indentured servants who could killed the plantation owner and pass for his newly arrived cousin .

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    1. idiot849 Avatar

      No, Irish were slaves and Indians were just in parts of Trinidad and Guyana that too from areas of south India. Also Indians are not Asians either

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  38. Tara Smith Avatar

    Interesting read. In response to the comment that the Irish did not lose their culture, language etc is inaccurate. The english continued to try to extinguish the Irish through starvation, oppression etc in Ireland. Enter the time of the Irish Famine or genocide. The Irish language was nearly extinct and was only spoken in very remote parts of the country for a long period of time. Today the language is making a comeback. My ancestors were lucky to survive this part of history. I am in no way minimizing the African slave part of history, it is through this history of the Irish to say we can relate and understand an awful part of human history. It is not a contest it is a reminder that many people suffered under the ruling monarchies of England. Perhaps this is were we can find common ground and open the conversation of race relations.

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  39. wolfsilveroak Avatar

    Read Des Ekins’ The Stolen Village.

    http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/the-stolen-village-des-ekin/1113681635?ean=9781847174314#productInfoTabs

    English landowners would literally pay pirates to come and raid entire villages on the Irish land they owned, to get rid of the renters so the landowner could do as he wished with the land. Whole towns disappeared into the MIddle East and North Africa as a result.

    Yes, the Irish were treated horribly by the English, but they were not ‘sold’ as slaves, per se, to the West Indies. An indentured servant is not a slave. An indentured servant has the chance to earn their freedom, a slave does not.

    So while many where likely shipped to the new colonies and the West Indies, it was likely as indentured servants, not slaves. And most defintely not at the numbers cited in this article. Otherwise, there would not have been near as many who immigrated, as well as died of starvation and disease, during the Great Potato Famine as there simply wouldn’t have been that many left!

    And it is entirely possible that they formed families with the native peoples there, or when the slaves were finally freed by England in the English colonies of the West Indies, in the 1830s, with them and that could be how so many African Americans have Irish surnames.

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  40. Paul Brown Avatar
    Paul Brown

    I think that this article is an insult to the horrors that blacks had to go through during slavery. There is a new drive by whites all over Europe and the UK, stating that they are the real “Jews” or “lost tribes”. This article is merely an attempt to connect whites to Deuteronomy within the KJV Bible.

    The numbers and the periods have also been exaggerated to make the act look gross and longer. I am a Jamaican and I do know, based on teaching, that whites were experimented as slaves for a short period; however they failed to be productive in the climate and harsh conditions.

    Black slaves were the alternatives because they could bear these conditions, and also knew farming techniques which they carried with them to the “New World”.

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  41. glen bodden Avatar

    Not believe this give me books

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  42. Chloe Avatar
    Chloe

    Both explanations for why blacks have Irish last names are only partially true. Most blacks who lived on plantations did not have last names. If you look at census lists or the property lists of white planters, you will see that their human property were only given first names. No last names are listed as none were given. Since enslaved blacks did not have last names at the time the Civil War ended, many were catalogued on freedmen’s lists and forced to adopt last names. These last names chosen were often those of Union soldiers whom were primarily Irish. Only a few took on the last names of their former owners, some took names from the Bible. The notion that plantation owners fathered most mixed children is also false. While plantation owners certainly did rape and father children by enslaved women, many were absentee owners who only visited their plantations seversl times a year, this is especially true in the Caribbean. The fact is that any white male could sexually assault a black woman with impunity. The master, overseer, slave driver and all of their male relatives or any white male visiting a plantation for business purposes could access any black woman and rape her. Also, many black women were impregnated on the slave ships and were pregnant by the time they reached the Americas. Many of our foremothers were raped by the ships captains and the dozens if not hundreds of white crew members. They were also raped by their white captors and dealers while in the holding cells that lined the coasts of Africa. So no, they weren’t only raped by the master but any children born of these rapes became the property of the plantation owners. As far as Irish slaves being treated worse than African slaves, not true. The mortality rate of enslaved Africans during the slave trade was so high that white planters had to replace entire popoulations of 30,000 plus people every 5-7 years. The turnover would not be that high if whites treated enslaved blacks with even a modicum of kindness. Most planters were multimilionaires by today’s standards so purchasing thousands of enslaved blacks every 5 years to replaced the thousands who died from starvation, dehydration, disease, exposure, infection, brutality, suicide and mutilation was a minor expense. Slavers were greed driven sadists.

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  43. Ray Taylor Avatar
    Ray Taylor

    So if Irish slave girls intercoursed with black slave men, how did the Irish names carry through?

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  44. halimah watson Avatar
    halimah watson

    Oliver Cromwell lived in Henry Tudor’s time around 1536 when Anne Boleyn was beheaded. So what’s this about 16 something and king James?

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  45. ktplez Avatar
    ktplez

    I wish the writer had included some references. As a lay person, it’s hard to know who to believe. Here is an article written by 3 people: Liam Hogan, an independent scholar and librarian, Laura McAtackney, an associate professor in sustainable heritage management (archaeology) at ร…rhus University, Denmark, and Matthew Connor Reilly, a postdoctoral fellow in archaeology and the ancient world at Brown University. http://www.thejournal.ie/readme/irish-slaves-myth-2369653-Oct2015/

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  46. emcfields Avatar

    I want to thank everyone for reading my post……it was a topic I’ve been pondering for a while…..I was tired of being asked the same questions over and over…..”your last name is Irish but you are black”. I Will keep the research going and will write another post that you will love.

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  47. How Blacks have Irish Last Names | sullivancait Avatar

    […] Source: How Blacks have Irish Last Names […]

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  48. Sanderson Rowe Avatar

    Extract from the book, “A Journey from Bridgetown to Belfast”
    “……….History appeared to have been a bit unfair to the Irish, in terms of slavery. Unlike African slavery ,the Irish’s story was not widely publicised. Even to this day many still believe that Irish slavery only affected a few thousands. Sometime in the 17th century after the battle of Kinsale in County Cork, in Ireland which took place between 1601 -1602, the English was faced with the huge problem of looking after 30,000 men taken as Prisoners-of War. Their solution to this problem was to start a system of banishment,not unlike what Stalin had done later in the 1930’s ,banishing peasants , kulaks, political opponents and others deemed as undesirables and enemies of the state to prison camps and salt mines in the desolate Siberia.
    Banishment did not solve the problem completely, so King James , the second gave his blessing and encouragement to the selling off of Irish men and women as slaves to the English planters who at this time were becoming entrenched and very rich. The 1625 Proclamation gave the order for Irish political prisoners to be shipped off and sold to the plantation owners in the West Indies. This proclamation lasted 200 years ,ending some 9-13 years before Black Slavery Emancipation.
    The African slave “adapted” readily to the tropical conditions of the West Indies,but they had to be purchased, whereas the Irish were hunted down like rabbits in their homeland, and were free of charge for the taking.

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  49. Johnny boy Avatar
    Johnny boy

    Wow Sheila horn you can really write

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  50. Darren Avatar
    Darren

    It seems some people are trying to argue as if only black people were ever slaves?? Ever heard of Spartacus? How about the Hellenic slaves in Sparta who were not only slaves but hunted and killed by Spartans in training. The Romans were very efficient slave masters and after brutally conquering most of Europe and enslaved people to build roads and cities – where did gladiators come from?

    By the time we reach the 1600s the non roman Europeans have been assimilated into a romanic style world where most are commonly white (although this seemed to exclude the irish who were treated very badly and if they weren’t forced into servitude died of starvation or spent their lives as serfs). At this point eyes are cast around for new slaves, from somewhere that isn’t yet a taboo source.

    African tribes were happy to take slaves during wars, and more than happy to sell them on to arab and european traders. This then started a huge trade as the US opened up as a new world demanding labour.

    In the 1940s what were the Jews in Germany? What happened to 6 million of them? Where they not slaves in labour camps? Where they not forced to build railroads and gassed and burned in ovens?

    What do we see here? That Slavery is colour blind but profit centred. Today black people are assimilated into western culture, et slavery hasn’t ended. In the middle east a milder form of it still exists. In parts of India the caste system locks some segments of society into servitude.

    We need to move past focusing on just one point in history to see the big picture. And to recognise that slowly humanity is discovering the idea of liberty, equality, human rights. Spreading these values will end modern slavery, and help us make the entire history of slavery a thing of the past.

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    1. Ajkyle Avatar
      Ajkyle

      Remember England was also enslaved by the Romans. It is safe to say that if we knew all of history everyone’s ancestry has been enslaved at sometime. Don’t forget modern recorded history versus older nonrecorded history or minutely recorded history. Adam and Eve are my ancestors as well as yours DNA has proven that we all tie to the original humans they lived in Africa. We are truly brothers and sisters let’s keep recording history and see if we can make the future better for everyone. I am a Kyle from Scotland I am scotch-Irish they were indentured servants and free men. I’m English Scandinavian Western Europe Eastern Europe, European Jew Irish my oldest ancestry comes from Africa I along with all of you are the human race we are imperfect people frail to a fault trying to make life better for each other

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  51. FARQUHARSON, E Avatar
    FARQUHARSON, E

    very interesting.

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  52. Karen Avatar
    Karen

    I would like to share this article on Facebook but do not see a Facebook icon to share the link. Please advise. Thank you.

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    1. emcfields Avatar

      Karen, first and foremost thank you for your reply. I added the Facebook icon to my blog so you can share the link.

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  53. 1stGenCan Avatar
    1stGenCan

    My entire family ancestry is from the island of Montserrat. I always wondered why a lot of families there had Irish last names (Riley, Dubbery etc.) & why St.Patrick’s day is arguably one of the most celebrated holidays on the island. Although they did suffer as the Africans, they were also afforded certain privileges not afforded to African slaves. I wonder if the Irish will be told to ‘get over it already’ the same way African Americans and Canadians are told.

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  54. debunkingthemyths Avatar

    There is a book called White Cargo. I got it on Amazon..there is a complete history of the Irish Slave trade. The Irish were hated because they were catholics. What is there for any of you to gain by denying the atrocity of the abuse of the Irish? In the sixteen hundreds EVERYONE came as indentured servants including Africans. The first slave owner in the colonies was Anthony Johnson, a black African. He gained his freedom in 7 years and bought land. He had several indentured servants. One of them reached his 7 year mark, and went to work on another mans farm. Johnson took him to court and the judge ruled that Anthony Johnson did not have to release this man. That is the first recorded slave in the colonies. What ya’ll ;need to figure out is why this history has been buried and who is gaining from that. If you notice, there is nothing said at all about color in the constitution concerning slaves. I have to go back and check to see if the word slave is even in it.

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  55. scottytreid Avatar

    Here is the thing though, when they hooked up with Africans to rebel, Bacons Rebellion, they struck a deal with the English colonists to become the slave patrols and plantation overseas. Of course police departments came from the slave patrols and why in some states you got a lot of Irish cops. So they forgot where there came from, slavery and became slavers or helped them. So, f**ck the traitorous bastards.

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  56. Gary Kelly Avatar
    Gary Kelly

    Having the last name ‘Kelly’ seems to place me directly in the cross hairs of this discussion. Now is it Irish or Scottish. I think the Scots are the O’Mally’s and O’Conner’s and the like…..

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    1. Ajkyle Avatar
      Ajkyle

      Kelly is Scotland argyle or Ayrshire area originated there just like Kyle does

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  57. Mac Avatar
    Mac

    in order to be enslaved it didn’t matter whether you were Irish, English, Welsh, Scots, Black, White. or any other colour or race, you just needed to be POOR. and that has not changed. slavery is not in the past,

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  58. Mac Avatar
    Mac

    it didn’t matter whether you were Irish, English,Welsh, Scottish, Black, White, or any other race or colour, you just needed to be POOR. That has not changed and the enslavement of the poor is as relevant today as it was at any other time in history. Poverty is the great enslaver.

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  59. Jared W. Avatar
    Jared W.

    Word of warning: My commentary rivals the original article in length.
    There is a prevailing debate amongst the commentators that leaves me with strong feelings of indignation. The argument is as follows: โ€œโ€ฆthe Irish… had an advantage because of their skin color.โ€ In this way of debate it subdivides the issue of slavery in degrees of worse and worse-er. Its effect with regard to the subject of slavery on a whole only minimizes the atrocities of slavery and bigotry. Therefore, this preposterous on-going debate only goal is to keep the Blacks monopolizing the atrocious history of slavery. What utter pointless nonsense is this!? Slavery, in any oppressive, dehumanizing form is wrong! Debating its distinctions is appalling and only has in place in academia and never in culture or politics. The only qualifying factor is; if itโ€™s dehumanizing and/oppressive then itโ€™s wrong! It doesnโ€™t matter how โ€˜wellโ€™ you claim they were treated nor what advantage you say they had by the color of their skin. In fact, you could make the argument the latter point is a bigoted racist statement. This is not a racial issue; it is humanitarian issue!

    What is Black? What is White? There are many different races from different parts of the world, all with their own diverse history that share the same or similar skin colors. So what is it that makes all so called White skinned folks exactly like one another? Likewise, what makes all Blacks the same? Africa is a huge continent. Each induvial from different areas of the continent have unique differences. Are the Australian Aborigines to be categorized in this same way although, willingly or unwillingly, they didnโ€™t participate in the same slave trade and share no (at least within the past several thousand years) common history with the African Blacks? Although I reject the implications of these labels, for the sake of the argument and simplicity, Iโ€™ll continue to use them. I do so only under protest.

    In America and even somewhat in Europe, Black skinned people enjoy a monopoly of the history slavery and its oppressive effects. Many people tend come to the belief that African Blacks were the only ones in the entire world to fall victim to Slavery. Although, the much to the contrary; if youโ€™ve ever studied world history, youโ€™d realize that slavery has happened in just about every culture at one time or another and has been happening at every point in time in mankindโ€™s history including the present.

    This fact is recorded in ancient China, Egypt and Mesopotamia. Vikings had plenty through their bloody history and called them thralls. The Romansโ€ฆ anyone? The Huns and Mongols did it. Many Native American tribes would enslave other tribes that theyโ€™d conquer. Aztecs and Mayans were no exception. And, yes, African tribes did it as well!

    In fact, some African tribal leaders were profited from the slave trade by allowing and assisting slave traders in raiding their enemies land. Some would conquer their enemies to gain power, land, wealth and additional wealth by selling their slaves to slave traders. They became very wealthy and powerful at the expense of their foes and rivals. They were dictators and if they felt it to their advantage theyโ€™d sell off members of their own tribe and simply call it their right as ruler. Even today the continent is littered with tribal dictators and warlords and they oppress the people below them and still treat them as slaves.

    The only notable distinction is that the import/export of slaves reached a pinnacle during the colonization of the Americaโ€™s era and Blacks were the main โ€˜slave stockโ€™ being exchanged at the time. Then, for many of the worldโ€™s most powerful and influential nations of the time, this is where slavery was put to an end. This is the most recent history and this is, what Iโ€™d argue, is the reason why Blacks are accredited as being the โ€˜slave raceโ€™.

    In contrast, however, at this same period in history, predominately, the Portuguese and Spanish were colonizing and enslaving the indigenous population of the South America continent. Although some of the indigenous people eventually earned their way up in status and they imported slaves from the African slave trade, the overwhelming majority of the oppressed was still the South America natives. To reiterate; weโ€™re talking about the entire South American continent. The only major distinction was that these slaves were not being exported outside of their continent likened unto cargo as they were in the African Slave trade.

    But still many commentatorsโ€™, and even thought our recent political history, make topics like these into racial issues. Though bigotry definitely had itsโ€™ part to play, the root of the issue, was nevertheless mostly about making a profit at the expense and exploitation of these slaves. If it wasnโ€™t profitable, they wouldnโ€™t have done it. This is a human issue, not a race one. In part, bigotry came into play in order to ease the conciseness of individuals who partook of the benefits of slavery. Some aspects of racism are religious others are cultural but in most cases have nothing to do with something as simple as skin color and are definitely not limited to Blacks. Other aspects of racism and bigotry are far too complicated to touch on here.

    To pick on Chloe (Admittedly, I Enjoy picking on ignorant bigots); she mentions how Whites suppressed Blacks and sites example after example and doesnโ€™t fail to continue to mention color over and over again. Clearly this makes it a Black vs White issue. Letโ€™s not forget the Red vs White; Yellow vs White; and Brown vs White. It seems by your statements that Whites are the only skin color capable of being bigots, slave traders/owners, and oppressors. I reject this and say that the skin color labels are themselves, at best, a statement of a bigot.

    This is an ignorant recitation of a much more complicated history than Chloe suggest. She and many other commentators suggest and maintain that this is a racial issue, Black against White. This regard of history and overall attitude only serves to further perpetuate the divide between skin color and bigotry. This slave trade, and the bigotry in the past and now, is very complicated issues; donโ€™t oversimplify them by making it an issue of Black vs White. Doing so further divides races and intimates that being white is bad and that youโ€™re somehow guilty of past crimes. This is not a race issue! Itโ€™s a human one!

    โ€œThe main difference is that 600,000 people died in a civil war to end Black slavery, not Irish indentured service.โ€ There you go again, oversimplifying a complicated issue. First of all, the reason for the Civil War was the Confederateโ€™s secession from the Union. This was brought about by many different factors and not just slavery as most people seem to think. One issue was the Federal Government vs Individual Stateโ€™s rights. Another was the prevailing feeling among the Southern States that they were not being representing and that their votes didnโ€™t count. Indeed, they legitimately had reasons for their grievances too.

    Slavery was not only their chief concern but certainly serves as a great example. The impact of freeing the slave would be felt much more to the Confederates than the Union. In other words, the South stood more to lose. This is how many other current events were going at the time, that is, not in the favor of the south. January 1861, seven Southern slave states individually declared their secession from the United States and formed the Confederate. But it wasnโ€™t until January 1, 1863 that Lincoln issued the Emancipation Proclamation. This historical issue is clearly more complicated than most people give it credit for being.

    Second, how does the Civil War, even if it were just about slavery, diminish the atrocities of slavery, war, and maltreatment of the Irish? The article is pointing the finger at the British Empire. The same empire founded the North American Colonies. The same empire, including the Spanish and French, therefore, initiated the slave trade in North America.

    Further, the statement, โ€œโ€ฆ I am offended not by the story and the facts, but by the dishonest comparison.โ€ this is an insult to intellect! (I feel it necessary to elaborate because of your intellectual handicap. What Iโ€™m saying is that youโ€™re complete idiot.) Itโ€™s a circular statement! Just like her arguing the distinction between different slave treatments. Itโ€™s like saying, โ€œIโ€™m personally offended by you not because of your genetics but because of your race!โ€. Idiotic! Not only are the facts part of the story but so is the comparison. But I digress; apparently what Chloeโ€™s real point is by this previous statement is that, when/if Whites talk about how a part of their race was oppressed and enslaved at one point in history that it somehow diminishes and lessens the Blackโ€™s slave history and only serves to โ€œโ€ฆto make Whites feel better about them-selvesโ€ฆโ€. Case and point, to her itโ€™s all about race. FYI: โ€˜Themselvesโ€™ need not be hyphenated by the wayโ€ฆ just saying.

    And at last; nowhere in the article did the author claim that the treatments to the Irish were worse. In fact he intimated that the conditions were at least just as bad when he said, โ€œWe know all too well the atrocities of the African slave trade.โ€. Therefore, this is a moot point and if youโ€™ve somehow drawn that conclusion on your own, it speaks more to your intellect and character than true facts.

    So whatโ€™s my point; well itโ€™s not to minimize the history of Black slaves. To review, my points are thus:
    1. Throughout history, all nations and races are guilty of slavery.
    2. The worst and qualifying factors for slavery are oppression and dehumanization.
    3. Blacks are/were not the only slaves.
    4. Blacks participated and also were complacent in the slave trades.
    5. Blacks are still enslaving one another and so are Whites, it needs to stop.
    6. The slave trade was/is not a race issue, itโ€™s a humanitarian one.
    7. Regardless of the disputable facts of this particular article; Whites have been/are subjected to same level of cruel slavery as well. Blacks do not collectively own a patent on cruel slavery.
    8. Slavery is still happening today and not prevailing with just Blacks.
    9. Donโ€™t continue to nourish the seeds of bigotry by oversimplifying complicated historical issues and happenings into Blacks and Whites or any other shade of color.
    10. Nowhere in the article did the author claim that the treatments to the Irish were worse.

    Conclusion: With regard to the article.
    Although, I recognize that the facts of this article are in dispute, with regard to the treatment of the Irish by the British Empire, knowing what I do about history, it is not entirely unlikely that much of this is true. As for how, I insist on the qualifier โ€˜someโ€™, of the โ€˜Blacksโ€™ got their last names, I think this may just be embellished truth.

    Thank you,
    Jared Whitefield

    P.S. Ignorant bigots need not comment.

    Like

    1. L Avatar
      L

      Yes they did. They said the Irish were treated better. Read it again.

      Like

  60. Catherine Wood Avatar

    When the KKK did not get enough traction in the south in the early part of the 20th century they moved North and preyed upon the Irish and Catholic immigrant. My Uncle Lon, born in the U.S. was shot in the head by the KKK in Sudbury Massachusetts back in the twenties. The KKK was waning so they turned their hatred back to the Irish. Some of us blow it off, move on, and create a better life for our families. We fight hatred with success. One generation after another. Some people wallow in the past and stay the victim. https://sudbury.ma.us/services/news_story.asp?id=259

    Like

  61. P.Ausems Avatar
    P.Ausems

    I’m Dutch and this is only the second time I’ve read about this in my life..
    Maybe this should spoken more of, because I’m sure I didn’t learn this in my student years. No.. this is skipped when you learn about politics and English/Irish relationships (IRA was very active at that time), but actually more understandable if only 100yrs before centuries of abuse were stopped..
    Schools should teach more about this stuff, because it’s part of a neighbouring history which may not be NOT told. Instead the only thing of Ireland you learn is that Dublin is its capital..
    So with that in mind I guess history allready was rewritten in favour of the British
    Thanks for sharing

    Like

    1. OneHanded Avatar
      OneHanded

      IRA was very active at what time and why are you bringing terrorists into this?

      Like

  62. Rita Etheridge Avatar
    Rita Etheridge

    My grandmother ๐Ÿ‘ต had told me this when I was a little girl, If you come from a family who is of mixed race, and they know the old family school ๐Ÿซ and is not afraid to tell you, cause this was known but your not suppose to talk about it..but I always knew cause of the red hair, but eyes and freckles..the freckles are a sure sign my grandma would say..I learned sp much from her said she wasn’t allowed to talk are educate anyone of it, once my grandfather died she told everything..she was a Creole borne in Baton Rouge La. Giving in exchange for a debt that was owed to my grandfather, he didn’t want anyone to know his family history, did you know there were Germans who were held in prison in N.Orleans La. because of there race ? My family history is very interesting..anyway they can’t sweep all this under the rug anymore thanks to documents of proof which are online for the world to see now!! I love it !! All this purity has got to go, and the truth come out!!! Period

    Like

  63. Kev Somers Avatar
    Kev Somers

    Barbados has an enclave on the island, the descendants of Irish slaves who never integrated with others, they speak with a slight Irish accent but as a race they suffer from alcoholism and diabetes and inbreeding.

    They live as second class citizens and are called red-legs and red-necks etc by the rest of the population due to their fair skins getting burned by the sun.

    Fact.

    Like

    1. aine Avatar
      aine

      that is not true they are mixed rihannna the singer her father is of irish desent . they did mix that’s why they have lighter skin its luck of the draw with genetics if your great great great grandmother was white your chid could be white. Rihanna was also bullied for her lighter skin. get your facts right

      Like

  64. Thoughty Thursday: Things that made me go hmmmm on the interwebz, Oct 18-24, 2015 | Writerly Goodness Avatar

    […] Why blacks have Irish last names. Note: It was pointed out to me that there is a difference between indentured servitude and slavery. Something to keep in mind as you read. Iโ€™m not looking to be inflammatory. […]

    Like

  65. John Thomas Avatar
    John Thomas

    We took slaves too, St Patrick was a slave! Nile of the nine hostages was a bit of a devil

    Like

  66. C T Avatar
    C T

    Unlike Africans, Irish indentured servants could buy their way out of slavery. So not forgotten but definitely no true or meaningful comparison. There were thousands of indentured white servants in England during the same time.

    Like

  67. Maggie Avatar
    Maggie

    Liam Hogan does a pretty good job of refuting this pseudohistory. http://www.academia.edu/9475964/The_Myth_of_Irish_Slaves_in_the_Colonie This story has been circulated amongst white supremacist sites and through social media, has found its way into mainstream conservative consciousness. It’s now being used to paint the picture of white persecution and victimization and to deny historic institution racism in the US. Disgusting lies like this are akin to Holocaust Denial, and it’s no surprise that one of the authors circulating this myth, Michael Hoffman, is in fact an outspoken Holocaust Denier. Whether you think indentured servitude and slavery are the same is a matter of semantics, but it was on no way even close to the chattel slavery faced by blacks. The Cromwell era, which saw a few thousand Irish servants brought to Barbados, is where most of this false narrative is focusing on. The large wave of Irish immigrants to the US in the 19th century has no direct lineage with the Barbados group, were granted the status of whiteness very early, and were actively involved in violent attacks on Blacks, Asians and other ethnic groups competing for jobs. There was discrimination and stereotyping of Irish, and there were many Irish supporting the abolition movement, and later solidarity with the civil rights movement. But this narrative of Irish victimization is being used by racist whites to oppose social progress
    A second article.
    http://www.irishcentral.com/news/first-lady-michelle-obamas-irish-slave-owner-roots-are-revealed-159341955-237511041.html
    A third article
    https://www.opendemocracy.net/beyondslavery/liam-hogan/%E2%80%98irish-slaves%E2%80%99-convenient-myth

    Liked by 1 person

  68. familytreegirl1 Avatar

    Reblogged this on familytreegirldotcom and commented:
    Interesting write up Eddie McFields. A blog to follow. I have a very Irish last name…Murphy, enjoy and thanks for sharing Konnetta! I know where mine came from. Enjoy! Do you know where you Irish surname came from?

    Like

  69. Jamika McLilly Avatar
    Jamika McLilly

    I am African American and my last name is Mclilly.

    Like

  70. KayeKaye Avatar

    Excellent writing and a great read. Thanks for your research. You did not cite any sources and I’d love to research even further. Do you still have your list of sources?

    Like

  71. theTruth Avatar
    theTruth

    “slaves thus we have Irish names like McFadden, McDonalds” ~ I think you will find McDonals is a Scottish name.

    Liked by 1 person

  72. shun jackson Avatar
    shun jackson

    Irish were indentured servants,which lasted 7 years. After which they were given the title of “white” and used as overseers on plantations.

    Like

  73. Leah Renee Avatar
    Leah Renee

    As an African American woman with an Irish last name, i knew the Irish were slaves and figured that’s how i got my last name. I have been unsuccessful with finding all the data you have, will you please site the sources from your research? I’ll take everything you have, thank you! Such a great read!

    Like

  74. Vaughan Avatar
    Vaughan

    Horrific story, and the things the Irish went through shouldn’t be forgotten. But it seems that your fellow Irish forgot both about the atrocities done to them and working side by side with African slaves. Once they were accepted as “white” around the Depression, they quickly became as racist as any other white person during that time and hurriedly left the neighborhoods they were living in with Blacks. Also:
    1) A good number of slave masters were Scotch-Irish

    2) Irishmen were used as Overseers

    Like

  75. The Phoenix Avatar

    Reblogged this on Eccentric and Bent and commented:
    I had learned of indentured servitude among the Europeans. I never heard of Irish chattel slavery until the last few years. It started with a video of the Black Irish of Montserrat. From there I started seeing more videos and posts speaking on Irish slavery. I always thought that the Jamaican dialect sounded like a version of an Irish dialect. I assumed it had transferred from plantation owner to slave but instead it seems like it transferred from Irish slave to African slave.
    Even though our histories converged and should have caused extended cooperation between the groups, Irish Americans have become stereotyped as extreme racists. Some of that comes from atrocities visited upon African Americans during the 19th and 20th centuries such as the union riots that rocked many northern urban centers. Or the violence committed by Irish American youth against POC in places like Boston and New York.
    Whether the stereotype is based on truth or not, I have no personal knowledge. I just know that it opens a lot of questions as to how groups behave based on class status. It is also fascinating to see that American society changed its caste system from strictly class based to skin based in just a couple of centuries.

    Like

  76. Nurah Avatar

    My grandfather gave me His name..I lived with him in the flesh
    He said a freed man works for no man.
    Great article

    Like

  77. Desire Street Car Avatar
    Desire Street Car

    There were black slave owners as well, so to say that you doubt that they were slaves because such and such was an Irish slave owner is crazy. My ancestors great great great great great grandparents, one French, one black, moved to new Orleans together (after his wife died) and owned slaves. And i agree. They got to keep their last names because they were easy to pronounce….. Its common sense guys. People hardly wanna learn African names now and wanna say “I’ll call you _______” but anyway I have an Irish last name because of my mom’s dad but I also have a French last name that originated in Germany. Anyway, this was a great read.

    Like

  78. Brian welsh Avatar
    Brian welsh

    My grandmother was an indentured servant who came over here from Ireland to work with an English family later on my grandfather saw her or met her and decided to purchase her freedom from that English family so she so she was actually a slave / indentured servant herself

    Like

  79. 1venus11 Avatar
    1venus11

    I was under the impressionthat the Irish came to America as indenture slaves. That meant they came here and worked their debt off and paid for their freedom. Only a few blacks were able to do this. Then after a time the law change and blacks were considered chattel so therefore were unable to buy their freedom. That is really a big difference between being a black slave compare to other slaves who was really indenture slaves. One can work and but back their freedom, and the other one was considered less then an animal

    Like

  80. Sobleek Avatar
    Sobleek

    If so then where’s the genetic descendantcy of white besides the colonizing unaltered British or whatever bloodline in the West Indies today? The slaves that came over from Ireland where already black. Blacks where all over the world.

    Like

  81. Walter Carmickle Avatar
    Walter Carmickle

    Well my last name is carmickle. Family of three here by underground railroad. One man and two kids made it. Ive seen the pictures of long ago. My great great great great grandfathers name is the same as mine. To keep it going. So for me. Its about connecting the dots.

    Like

  82. Chaines Avatar
    Chaines

    I would like to recommend ‘People’s History of the United States’ by Howard Zinn to anyone who is interested in this type of hidden history.

    Like

  83. Louisiana Culture Avatar
    Louisiana Culture

    I get so tired of hearing about these damn Edomites (ie the Irish) and how they have suffered. The Irish have, throughout history been very cruel to African Americans so let them the many of them wear the title of red neck like it is their badge of honor. They have suffered nothing but a lack of potatoes and cabbages. They should be and “should have been” more like the Cajuns and quit they need to stop trying to corrupt the Cajuns. The Irish are ignorant beasts of the field!!!! I would claim nothing from their bloodline!!!!!

    Like

    1. eyeontorah Avatar

      All Caucasians are Edomites. Not just the Irish

      Liked by 1 person

  84. Luis Avatar
    Luis

    That’s the type of history that should be taught in schools.

    Like

  85. Fran McCarthy Avatar
    Fran McCarthy

    I got my answer. I was investigating the origin of my very Irish name “FRAN MCCARTHY”! Although my name has awarded me a lot of great opportunities because it looks great on paper; I’m a 6’0 tall African American from GEORGIA .I HAD TO KNOW!!!!!!!

    Like

  86. Leon Phelps Avatar
    Leon Phelps

    Riddle me this, if a irish woman is bred with an african man, would the child not take the last name of the MAN?! #DoesntAddUp

    Like

    1. TRUE Avatar
      TRUE

      That’s what I was going to ask. How would the Irish name get passed down, if the Irish parent was the mother.

      I still choose not to use the Irish name my Black family still carries.

      Like

    2. The Anon Avatar
      The Anon

      Not if the mother were a prostitute and father disappeared.

      Like

  87. Liam Kelly Avatar
    Liam Kelly

    The English Welsh and Scottish peoples all suffered by the hands of the elitist British. No one in the homeland was safe. If you didn’t have money you had nothing. It’s not to different to the world we have today. The names and places may change however the game and the crimes remain the same.

    Like

  88. dayshia96 Avatar
    dayshia96

    This is not new information, I have always known about this since I was a small child, my family has always spoke about it, we always wondered why the Irish themselves did not voice it more, was it to securely assimilate into the other parts of white culture, they have done just that, not sure if it is secure or not, but sometimes you won’t know if someone is Irish unless you ask them. I think slavery regardless of color is disgusting and shameful, but even more is to come out of slavery and help the oppressor with the same oppression that was previously placed upon you.

    Like

  89. Tom Shea Avatar
    Tom Shea

    I’m reading these blogs and I’m thinking to my self, what does this article have to do with irish slaves? Yet, let me put it this way, why does it seem like every black person wants to deny irish history? Remember one thing and one thing only…..irish slavery did happen in the Americas and in the West Indies! Did irish people have it worse than blacks??? It depend ends on how you look at it!!!!!!! If we were going Per capita I would 100 percent say yes!!! However, this isn’t auditing who had it better and who had it worse!!! Obviously African-Americans had it worse if you look at it in a way where most of their race went into slavery….yes, their own people were involved in the slave trade…..but again I’m just stating facts!!!! The reason why African-Americans have irish last names is literally because of the English men, they rounded up thousands upon thousands of irish enslaved woman, so they could breed more expensive slaves…..yes, there you go!!! Everyone knows a mulatto slave is more than a pure irish slave or pure African slave!!!!!! One last point, as a professor in irish studies…….here are some accredited sources on irish slavery, you shouldn’t get your sources from Wikipedia or any other non accredited website!!!!!!
    http://glc.yale.edu/master-samuel-symonds-against-irish-slaves

    https://www.ewtn.com/library/HUMANITY/SLAVES.TXT

    http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-irish-slave-trade-the-forgotten-white-slaves/31076

    One last thing, the only person / historian if you can really call him that ,since he is really just a flippin’ Englishman from Ireland ….really he is descended from English lords which is why he is on ten different websites promoting “irish slavery is a myth”……. His name is Liam Hogan or should I say Lord Hogan lol. Everyone google irish slavery is a myth and tell me who it’s written by or sourced by……you got it it Liam Hogan….yes he is one of the millions of English trying to deny our history!!!!!!!

    Like

  90. Tom shea Avatar
    Tom shea

    Anyone using liam hogan as a source, whom is the only one, literally the only one trying to debunk irish slavery besides the hundreds of thousands of African americans (which is why irish come off as “racist”…… Imagine irish saying African slavery never happened, when you know 100 percent it did happen??). I will admit, some of this is said by a very very very small percentage of the “real irish” population worldwide, they see it as being weak !!!! Especially admitting anyone enslaved them!!!!!! Think about their rage…” The fighting irish” especially 100 years ago you wouldn’t have not one Irishman admitting they were ever slaves ( they would talk about it amongst themselves, but never with outsiders whom weren’t “real irish”…. who wants to admit that, it’s not something to be proud of……in fact irish people when they arrived as “immigrants” in the late 1800s ……..after the irish slavery of the 1600s in New England and Virginia, South Carolina,etc….they were given guns to go fight a war right after they landed, literally!!!!! Then they faced the Nina signs( no irish need apply) etc etc…..basically, the irish tried so hard to fit in, after 800 years of oppression,real oppression……they wanted to fit in bad…..they wanted to be white!! However it took a while for them to be recognized as equals, even when JFK was elected as the first ” real Irishman” to be president!!!!!….(no scotch-irish has no irish blood in them at all,they are descendants of Scotland and England whom were given land in Northern Ireland by the English crown…..they kicked out and burnt down “real irish” villages to establish their land in the north with the backing, again of the crown!!!!! Again , please don’t source liam hogan lol haha, he is a librarian….not a historian!!!!! I thought it was funny when he came out with this B.S. All the people who were desperately trying to find something or someone to debunk irish slavery never looked at his credentials lol …..Liam hogan again isn’t a irish historian, he is a self taught librarian,yet he is on 20 some odd websites and 30 some odd blogs lol hahahaha like are u guys serious????? Again get creditable sources!!!!!!!! Not Wikipedia, or self proclaimed historians with B.S. Blog where a high school dropout or even a liam hogan can go and change irish slavery to irish indentured servitude on a daily basis lol……to those who used him as your source grow up!!!!!!

    Like

  91. joy2yah Avatar

    This must end with the entire group of humans~~or else look forward to the re-boot of the planet~~~so if there is not change~~~I well I guess I will see all of you in the next life-time~~~lyrics from Erykah Badu~~~

    Like

  92. Judy McDonough Avatar

    James II was not born in 1625.

    Like

  93. Connor Avatar

    This is a good example of the saying “this is a load of _______” (insert rude word or expletive).
    Irish slavery is not often talked about because it’s hard to find people who are stupid enough to believe that bullshit. Yes, Irish were often seen as lower than low, called “black Irish” or “Irish niggers”, but don’t confuse abusive language with being a slave. There are absolutely no records of this crap, only modern lore that is bandied about as long lost truths. The Irish may have been treated like shit way back when, but nobody sold even one of them. Where they were made to feel unwelcome, they headed for the hills, which is why we have the Appalachian populations, and others like them, populating those hills to this day. Ever wonder why those hillbillies talk funny? Much of their strange language is left over from the Gaelic that once was spoken widely in those hills. Moonshine? Gee, did the Irish ever make whisky? Did they live off the land, eat a lot of potatoes? If you look at it carefully enough, you will see how the Irish escaped their persecution and went into the hills to make their own way, and still do. Sure, some of their names have changed, but there are still plenty of McCoys, Buchanans and other very Irish last names out there in them thar hills.

    Irish slaves. So stupid it’s almost funny, but instead it’s depressing cuz it’s so ignorant and shows how gullible these liberal assholes are, just looking for someone else’s cause to bear cuz they gotta help those poor, downtrodden folks recover their true histories, and file a lawsuit against the government so they can assimilate into modern society and buy organic and get a job in IT or in the arts or a good non-profit…..fuck you. Get your heads out of your collective asses and out of all those others. Stick to your own life, quit looking for your next cause celeb.

    Like

    1. Friend Avatar
      Friend

      Hello Connor,

      While you certainly do make some points, you also seem to be confusing a few. If you want to refute the facts surrounding Cromwell’s conquest of Ireland, Irish rebel imprisonment, British penal system convictions, Barbary slave trade, and raids on mainland coastal Europe and the British Isles I’m interested to review your scholarly work.

      There’s ample others who would be willing to debate this with you. However, conflating the Scot-Irish with those who were the predominant focal point of British intolerance: Irish-Catholics (to include any and all Presbyterians and Dissenters among them however small a minority), as the focus of this article however factual is misdirected just as well. Scot-Irish synonymous with Ulster Scots of partitioned Ireland not natives of Ireland in the recent sense of this discussion.

      Let’s also not confuse slavery with meaning only chattel slavery. It did not begin that way even for Blacks/Africans. It began as indentured slavery otherwise known as servitude. Here’s a case for you to review (take your time):

      Master Samuel Symonds against Irish slaves: Law Case, Master Samuel Symonds against Irish slaves. William Downing and Philip Welch. Salem Quarterly Court. Salem, Massachusetts. June 25, 1661. Records and Files of the Quarterly Courts of Essex County, Massachusetts, vol. II, 1656-1662. The Essex Institute: Salem, 1912.

      The terminology is interchangeable, while there are cetainly differences in forms of slavery to say there was none is a tad rich, unless you’ve been an indentured servant yourself perhaps you know the benefits? Your comment about liberals is also misdirected, they don’t seem to be making the argument for “Irish slavery”.

      Otherwise, I agree there needs to be some factual citations presented with the article.

      Cheers

      Like

    2. aine Avatar
      aine

      ack sure the English were only RAPEING women and children for 800 years talking are homes are lands hanging us for are religion we were slaves to the English for years ack and sure only 1 million people died of starvation watching there kids dieing one by one resorting to poor houses were you worked for food. and to the edjit who called the ira terrorists. that’s the label the brits give them. now what were we to do not fight back the ira would never of been invented had the brits not tortured us and refused us basic human rights. also England is a lot rougher place to live than Ireland the ira keep the drugs out of catholic communitys. are streets are a lot safer for kids to grow up that’s a fact gangs of kids running about with guns you wont get that hear unless its the paramilatarys

      Like

  94. KnowlageDrop Avatar
    KnowlageDrop

    I agree with people that don’t want to be called African american, who were never born in Africa, I refuse to be called black because my skin is brown, I believe the calling of our race black is to degrade us because there is belief that whomever picked the name of the brown indigenous people from Africa named the race black because it was the most negative color

    Like

  95. al Avatar
    al

    many of the Irish expelled to the New World were “Black Irish”……

    many were actually dark skinned ‘black’ irish. Cromwell’s cruelty was a race and ethnic cleansing…..ridding the Kingdom of the remnants of its ancient Black population.

    naturally, that population mixed in with the newly arrive slave blacks as well as the indigenous blacks.

    plenty an irish female “married” black african men. (skip gates, wanda sykes, ……all have traced their roots to irish women who paired up with african men.)

    the first anit miscegenation laws were passed to prevent such mixing. The Black men were getting all the women.

    Like

  96. don Avatar
    don

    why do so many people dismiss the truth about irish slave black and white people dismiss the truth

    Like

  97. Brody Jackson Avatar

    This answers a hell of a lot for me. I am in my late 40’s. I have noticed since I was very young that a full one-third or more (approximately) of mixed race couples I see there will be a black male and a red headed white female. It’s really amazing to see once you notice it. To add to it the female is usually severely overweight about half the time. I am not judging anyone here I am just making observations and that is what I have observed. It would be interesting to know why they are attracted to each other. I have always found that a fascinating sociological subject, whether it’s worthy of study is doubtful.

    Like

  98. Jude Avatar
    Jude

    Is Hare an Irish name?
    My dad is African-American and his last name is Hare.
    My Mom is Caucasion and Scottish.

    Like

  99. COLM Maher Avatar
    COLM Maher

    Great to hear the truth that MOST BRITISH don’t want to hear COLM MAHER.

    Like

    1. mgray23 Avatar

      There were NO WHITE OR IRISH SLAVES IN THE US. THEY WERE INDENTURED SERVANTS. This is a damn sight different than chattel slavery. I donโ€™t know why white people are in such a hurry to prove theyโ€™re oppressed but this just isnโ€™t true.

      https://www.google.com/amp/s/mobile.nytimes.com/2017/03/17/us/irish-slaves-myth.amp.html

      Like

  100. Uncadoo Avatar
    Uncadoo

    What people seem to be missing is the point of contention that exists today. The black people of today are not harmed by the slavery of decades ago any more than I (an Irish-American) or any other Irishmen are. It was the Jim Crow laws and the Redlining that did the most damage. For decades Black people were not allowed to own property in the affluent areas and could only own property in poorer areas. Now White people want to say “Okay, no more racism, you keep what you have and I’ll keep what I have” after tilting the field in their favor for decades. Thus, Black people don’t have anything of value for the most part. This is where the resentment mostly lies, in the distinct advantages given to the White people, Irish or otherwise. The field needs to be tilted in the other direction for a few decades before we can be on level ground. Just don’t take my stuff from me!!

    Like

  101. Allegedly Dave Avatar

    More White Supremacist bullshit… there were no white slaves, the Irish and Scots were originally black people, they descend from black Hebrew Israelites called the Iber (Heber or Eber, vowels are interchangeable… and are the same people who travelled to Africa and called themselves the Ibo or Igbo).
    The Iber inhabited Spain/Portugal which they named after themselves, the Iberian Peninsular, they were later chased out by barbarians into a new land they also named after themselves, Hibernia (Literally the land of the Hebrews) which is Ireland. The Irish are Iber-ish (Hebrew man)
    When Britainnia was taken over by the English (Germans) they immediately attacked the Irish and Scots and deported these black people to the West Indies, the women that remained were raped and whitenised by the red haired German invaders.

    Read Whence the Black Irish of Jamaica by Joseph R Williams

    Like

    1. mgray23 Avatar

      Thank๐Ÿ‘๐ŸพYou๐Ÿ‘๐Ÿพ

      The mental gymnastics required to equate having Irish last names and black Americans with the Irish having been slaves right along side us is astounding.

      Like

  102. Mary Avatar
    Mary

    Were Irish babies sold to another people as black babies were sold to white slave owners?

    Where are the runaway slave notices posted for Irish slaves (as there were for black slaves)? Or did the Irish enjoy being slaves and never ran away from their ‘slave masters’?

    If Irish and blacks suffer slavery together, why is it only the blacks that lost their surnames and the Irish somehow retained their surnames and a knowledge of who they were [IRISH]?!?

    We have to stop making up excuses for white slaveholders and the damage they inflicted onto their black captives, including the removal of our names and stripping us of even the knowledge of knowing where we are (specifically) from as the Irish, English, Spaniards, Scottish, etc. knew their origins. Enough is enough.

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  103. Linda Avatar
    Linda

    If black slavery came subsequent to Irish slavery, why do blacks still go on about their “rights”? Irish women were forced to have black children (enslaved first in the West Indies & Monserrat), because black slaves were costly, whereas Irish slaves cheap. Why aren’t those of Irish slavery equally claiming discrimination or expecting reparations? Weird!

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  104. RealtalkwithzenaTV Avatar

    IT IS A SPIRIT THAT DOES NOT CARE FOR ANY RACE…KNOW THAT TO ANY CAUCASION OR TO THE TRIBES OF ISRAEL XOXO

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  105. […] โ€œHow Blacks have Irish Last Namesโ€ […]

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  106. aghorishaivite Avatar
    aghorishaivite

    Lies. Shame on you. People, do your google search before you believe nonsense. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2017/03/17/us/irish-slaves-myth.amp.html

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  107. Terrance T Doyle Avatar
    Terrance T Doyle

    My last name is Doyle since I been on Facebook I’ve learned there is alot of people in Jamaica with last name as mine I am in Chicago and it’s alot of us scattered through the city but it very nice to know we are Doyle’s all over the world beautiful black people

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  108. Leonidas Avatar
    Leonidas

    Excellent article, sadly but all true. What Oliver Cromwell did in Ireland was a genocide. And he made a profit out of it. African slaves were very expensive, slave trade controlled by Spain/Portugal/Netherlands, all enemies of Cromwell so he created another ‘supply line’. Captured irish were SLAVES, and nothing but slaves, no matter how these hysterical (fake) leftists are trying to ‘prove’ otherwise. Sure, later on, some were indeed ‘indentured servants’ (not really that much different from common slaves) but in Orwell’s time vast majority were slaves.
    But why are these fanatics so triggered and butthurt about this, why they try to deny this crime so obsessively? Irish victims are not victims enough? Disgusting hypocrites and totalitarians, that’s what they are.

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  109. Sandra Green Avatar
    Sandra Green

    This is very informative. Why wasn’t this taught in highschool American history class?

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    1. Dee Pol Avatar
      Dee Pol

      The more I think about this article, the sadder I become knowing that most of you believe its lies. Please do your own research to find out about white slavery in the Americas. The Irish were brought over as indentured servants. This article attempts to make little of the term, indentured servitude, but the term has legal and Biblical definitions that give it limitations. If it were slavery, as the Africans suffered, it would have been called slavery. Google how and why enslaving whites/Christians was outlawed in the U.S. Iโ€™m not going to do the research for you. What I will do is to remind you that GOD gave us all an ability that sets us apart from lower animals and that is the ability to reason, use common sense instead of instinct, as lower animals do. Think about this; slavery is a serious business and slaves are property like cattle, horses, sheep etc. If a slave owner named Washington or Jefferson bred an Irish slave with an enslaved African, why would he give the surname of the Irish slave to the offspring? That is the most ridiculous thing Iโ€™ve ever heard. Do this; check the census records and slave owner property records. Youโ€™ll find that most often the enslaved are identified by age and gender only. Rarely youโ€™ll find them listed by age, gender and a first nameโ€ฆ NEVER A LAST NAME. This article is not stretching the truth, it is flat-out lying to you. When enslaving whites/Christians became illegal in the U.S., the newly released white indentured servants became crackers/overseers and many became slave owners themselves. That is why African Americans carry Irish surnames today.

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  110. Dee Pol Avatar
    Dee Pol

    This is BS. This is sometimes used to by Irish to distance themselves from the slaveholdinhs in America. Dirst the Spaniards/Portuguese outlawed enslaving Christians long before British had slaves in the Americas. The Irish were endentured servants. Endentured servitude is not some made up concept, as this article implies, it was a legal term with legal and Biblical limitations. In short, when enslaving Christians became illegal in North America, some of the newly freed white slave became slave owners and overseers. The term “cracker” refers to a poor white overseer. Blacks who have Irish last names got them from their IRISH slave owners. Not from being bread with Irish. That is sooooo stupid.

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  111. Dee Pol Avatar
    Dee Pol

    The more I think about this article, the sadder I become knowing that most of you believe its lies. Please do your own research to find out about white slavery in the Americas. The Irish were brought over as indentured servants. This article attempts to make little of the term, indentured servitude, but the term has legal and Biblical definitions that give it limitations. If it were slavery, as the Africans suffered, it would have been called slavery. Google how and why enslaving whites/Christians was outlawed in the U.S. I’m not going to do the research for you. What I will do is to remind you that GOD gave us all an ability that sets us apart from lower animals and that is the ability to reason, use common sense instead of instinct, as lower animals do. Think about this; slavery is a serious business and slaves are property like cattle, horses, sheep etc. If a slave owner named Washington or Jefferson bred an Irish slave with an enslaved African, why would he give the surname of the Irish slave to the offspring? That is the most ridiculous thing I’ve ever heard. Do this; check the census records and slave owner property records. You’ll find that most often the enslaved are identified by age and gender only. Rarely you’ll find them listed by age, gender and a first name… NEVER A LAST NAME. This article is not stretching the truth, it is flat-out lying to you. When enslaving whites/Christians became illegal in the U.S., the newly released white indentured servants became crackers/overseers and many became slave owners themselves. That is why African Americans carry Irish surnames today.

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  112. Robert Avatar
    Robert

    Indentured servitude did not last as long as or was as vast as outright chattel race based life long slavery in America. Many Irish were American slaveholders, some had even once been indentured servants at one time and after serving their indentured term went on to own a slave or two or several.

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  113. eunique McCLure Grisby Avatar

    McClure here and I am proud of my black and Irish ancestry. I am mixed with other things but my maiden name is McClure

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  114. Susan Avatar
    Susan

    Manโ€™s inhumanity to man is breathtaking!

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  115. sableindian Avatar

    This explains why many of my DNA ancestors carry Mitochondrial ‘European’ DNA and such high percentages. And why so many Georgians have stories about helping that White boy run to the mountains.

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  116. TheHistorian Avatar
    TheHistorian

    Slavery was not born purely out of racism; racism was a later byproduct or justification for slavery. Was there a negative view of the non romanized world, by the nations of that empire? Yes. Was that what drove the slave trade in the last millenia? No. The real culprit is blind greed, economic opportunism, and plain availability. If the Irish were the easiest way to fill the positions needed to produce agricultural quotas then they would be used. After Cromwell there was such a situation, that later was deemed less desirable in a cost/benefit calculation, because of Irish poverty they could get the same benefit by using indentured servitude.*footnote

    The African slave trade was a better deal. Instead of having to round up the rebellious and often unreliable Irish, the African trade was already packaged and ready for sale. The European’s did not enslave Africans, they did not have to, Africans were already enslaved (they were prisoners of war) by more powerful Africans. The West, wrongly puts Africa, which is a continent not a country, as all the same people. Truth is, there was and is a huge ethnic and national diversity in Africa, and between those groups some had conquered others. It was these conquerors who sold off the conquered to the Europeans.

    A total of 455,000 Africans out of 12.5 million were brought to America from the 17th century till it stopped in 1820. That is less than the African migration per decade to the United States today. Not all Africans in America descend from slaves. The majority of Irish did not immigrate till after the close of the atlantic slave trade, and towards the civil war, or until the opening of the 20th century. The likelihood, if you are Irish, or of African descent to be involved with any of this is smaller than you think. Racism based on the color of your skin post dates the bulk of African slavery, and predates the arrival of most Americans’ ancestors. There are good apples and bad apples in every group of people, and people tend to do things based on more local things than racial ideology. The Irish rioted against the draft board in the 19th century, because war is horrible, and they were being forced into something that had nothing to do with. Could they have not read the plight of slaves in the newspaper? No, most of them could not read… most of them did not know what was going on beyond a three block radius. What about the Irish in the south? Did they feel they had a moral obligation to not support slavery? No, most were poor and fought because their homeland was invaded, and not for some big ideological reason.

    The origin of Irish sounding names in America comes from four places. First, there was intermarriage in early America before slavery. Second, there was intermarriage in the caribbean with descendents from the cromwellian slave trade of the Irish and African slaves. They either came to America as slaves, or moved to America in more modern times. Third, the names come from the Scots-Irish slaveholders. 37% of African American men can also trace their paternal ancestors, their Y-DNA, to European men who impregnated an African American female, most probably in the context of slavery. The Scots-Irish are not Irish. They are lowland Scots (not highlanders, more English in their culture. No bagpipes or Kilts) who were part of the English invasion of Northern Ireland. They were opposed by the native Irish (as they still are today), and as compensation given land and status in the New World. When someone thinks of “American” culture they think of Scots-Irish. Not all of them were slave owners, not all were wealthy or priviledged or educated. They account for a lot of the Irish sounding names in the south, whether they were Scots names, or co opted Irish names, they do not belong to the Irish family system. Fourth, historically the highest amount of interethnic marriage between two ethnic groups post civil war are Irish and African. Modern examples of Irish/African being Barack Obama, Muhammad Ali, Dr Martin Luther King, Dr Henry Louis Gates, Colin Powell etc… Even in modern times the two groups live in a lot of the same places, vote the same way politically, and both historically have been devalued unfairly by the Romanized world. The difference being, that African Americans are one of the oldests ethnic groups in America, and the majority of Irish being relatively new.

    What is NOT true is the absurd Idea that slavers bread African Slaves with Irish women to create more profitable slaves. There is no logic in that a hybrid race slave would be any more profitable than a hard working African slave, and has no basis in historical fact. African to African forced breeding was not even a thing, much less from another race. After the end of the atlantic slave trade ended in the early 19th century, breeding was encouraged, and more fertile women were preferred over non birthing prolific women. None of this was forced, as that would have hurt productivity, rather than helped, and the incentive of a female slave having reduced work during pregnancy encouragement enough.

    This whole conversion of who had it worse is nonsensical. Judging history, or whole groups of people through myopic glasses is not only intellectually dishonest but harmful in the modern practice of superimposing everything over the wrongs of the past. You did not do it, I did not do it, you did not go through it, and I did not go through it, you are shaped more by the world around you now, and I am shaped more by the world around me now.

    *Footnote

    It was not until the late 18th century that physical traits alone was being shopped around as an identifier of race, and much later till that idea would even flirt with the consciousness of the mainstream. The division of humans was more to do with social characteristics, rather than physical ones. The Irish, Native Americans, Africans and those native to the islands were classified as “savages”, not because of skin color, but because they did not ascribe to the supremacy of Protestantism. Race was judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character. Racism was a mischaracterization of that content. It was not until Darwin that the belief that physical traits identified race. Protestants believed that all Races came from one source. Physical race traits such as skin color were used much later as a justification for slavery, not a motivation to start it. They changed things to cover up the greed, it is that cover up that is racism today.

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  117. The Anon Avatar
    The Anon

    Irish were indentured servants, never slaves. They served for an agreed amount of time (usually seven years), the agreements were not always honored. The Irish often were poor and condescended by society but they were legal citizens and had a better status than a slave. The two terms, slave and indentured servant, should not be interchanged. A slave was property and could be killed if the owner chose to do so. The Irish faced discrimination for being ethnically Irish and being Catholic but there was no widespread allowance to murder an indentured servant or an Irishman as there was for black slaves.
    While the Irish did not have it good they had much better circumstances than slaves. Please do not confuse the two. Thank you.

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